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The Campaign for Immorality

Monday, October 01, 2012 | Comments (61)

If you’ve followed John MacArthur’s teaching for any length of time, you know he rarely says much about politics, culture, or society.

It’s not that he’s uninformed on those topics. It’s that they’re often an intrusion upon the teaching of God’s Word. Evangelical Christians are already too easily distracted from the Great Commission in order to engage in partisan politics. Our corrupt culture will not be transformed for the better by political movements or pop culture anyway. That is the work of God’s Word—the gospel in particular. That’s what our ministry is devoted to (cf. 1 Corinthians 2:1-5).

In this current campaign season, however, politicians have stepped—overstepped—into spiritual and moral areas, promoting horrific wickedness and blasphemous immorality.

As John MacArthur made clear on a recent Sunday morning, these are not areas where God’s Word is silent or ambiguous. Here’s an excerpt:

Listen to this 4-minute clip:

Launch Player  |  Download  |  Full Sermon

That’s a brief clip from John’s message Abortion and the Campaign for Immorality, the first of two sermons on the spiritual and moral decline being championed by our country’s leaders. The following week, he expanded on the topic in Homosexuality and the Campaign for Immorality.

Listen to this 1-minute clip:

Launch Player  |  Download  |  Full Sermon

Both of these timely, landmark messages are available for free download. We know they will be a blessing and an encouragement to you, helping you cultivate a biblical perspective on some cultural hot buttons.

And if you’re interested in going even further into these topics, we suggest the following resources:

The Deadly Dangers of Moralism

The Sinfulness of Sin

What About Abortion?

What Happens to Babies Who Die?

Homosexuality and the Bible

Safe in the Arms of God

The Freedom and Power of Forgiveness

GTY Staff


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#1  Posted by Susan Shepherd  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 3:16 AM

Thank you for taking time to speak about the utter degeneration of politics in our country. I believe Christians including myself become wrapped up in the political struggle without reading and applying God's word which can lead to confussion. God's word is very clear. Thank you for pointing out the blaphemy in associating God's name with abomination including homosexuality. For those of us who have family members who practice this sexual immorality it is good to be reminded that if we love them we will speak out against their behavior using God's word and that by not speaking out is hateful. In this society we are told the opposite, that not to condone is hateful, and it is drummed into our heads on an daily basis through all media forms. May God bless you all in the Grace to you for your commitment to preaching God's word faithfully.

#2  Posted by Lysandra Figueroa  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 6:14 AM

I have a very close flamily member who is a homosexual for over 40 years and this person has been given the gospel many times but their heart is so hardened. i pray for all the time for him and I leave it to the Lord to work in his heart and hopefully one day he will see his sin for what it really is and despise it.

I know it is the job of the holy Spirit to work on that person's heart to manifest Jesus in his heart , at the same time I know it is my job to let him know he is going down the road to destruction. my question is , how do i approach such a person who is so hardened and will not hear the truth? do I just keep praying ?

Please if anyone reads this , pray for this person . He needs alot of prayer.

Peace to you all in Jesus our Saviour.

#3  Posted by Randall Brookhiser  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 6:46 AM

Once again John's assessment of the spiritual condition of people in the US is totally correct. Sad to say I know relatives and people in churchs who claim to be born again Christains but support this Romans 1 agenda. They defend, for example, the homosexual lifestyle claiming that God created homosexuals that way even though God says He created humans male and female and that homosexual behavior is an abomination. In my recent Bible study of what God says about the role of men and women and marriage reveals that these professing Christians do not have any understanding of the Bible and likely are not true believers. I am more and more criticized by these people for taking the stand for morality. I will keep sharing the truth but I know that serious persecution is just around the corner with the way things are going in the world. Also, we know that the Lord's judgment is just around the corner. "Lord give us the strength and courage to continue stand up for the faith and the truth!"

#4  Posted by Jayson Noble  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 7:14 AM

Thank you Pastor MacArthur for your commitment to the Word of God and standing firm in this famine in the land for the hearing of the Word.

#5  Posted by Joe Carrillo  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 9:44 AM

Pastor John here is my struggle, as i read 2 john 1 , "10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." So based on this text , based on the fact that Mormonism is a Anti-Christ cult that leads people to hell , How am I supposed to vote for a Anti-Christ Candidate ? I mean are we actually missing the big picture here , I know the nation is in serious problems, I am not ignorant to that. I know that the Obama platform is pure evil, But i think we have been set-up here to vote for a Anti-Christ Candidate and we are not being obedient to the word of God . What about 2 Cor 6 .. what about the fact that you teach that Mormons are Anti-Christ and not just unorthodox Christianity, will you know stand from the pulpit and tell the people of God , oh his mormonism doesn't matter. His views about God, Christ, the Holy Spirit are not our values , is this not what matters. To Mitt Romney and the Mormons we are apostates, Jews are cursed, and blacks bear the mark of Cain, and we are going to vote for a Anti-Christ candidate and say to the world " being a Mormon doesn't matter " I'm sorry Pastor but i don't agree with you this time. I don't agree with the position of the church this time, I think we actually are going to make the biggest mistake in church history and our fears and our materialistic greed is dictating our vote and not the word of God. He has told me in His word not to yoke up with the unbeliever , He has told me in His word to not lose what we have worked so hard for , many many have given their lives for what we have , and just like that we are about to vote it away and bring Mormonism to the front of the world ... I love you , God bless you !

#6  Posted by Robin Luce  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 11:35 AM

It is written: The name of the Lord is a strong tower, the righteous run to it and are safe.

I am afraid; because, if the humble saints are safe in this strange and unsafe land--and we are--what will the transaction of that safety do to the proud.

We know that in the past God has done great things; but, we don't have another New World to go to on this side of heaven.

#7  Posted by Clifford Baldwin  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 12:46 PM

Thank you for the boldness to speak out on this matter. The basis for this action is simple. We are called to be "salt and light".

#8  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 1:26 PM

Joe (#5)

I think you are over reaching a bit with your comment. Honestly, voting for a guy for president who happens to be a Mormon is hardly “the biggest mistake in church history” because this isn’t church history. We have been providentially placed in a republic where we as Christians have been granted the privilege of participating in the electing process. If we were voting for the president of a Christian college, or seminary, or even a pastor, you would have a significant point. However, this is hardly the case. We are voting in a secular government, not a religious one. Look at what John stated in his opening remarks in his recent message on abortion: http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-448/abortion-and-the-campaign-for-immorality

This is not about politics, although there are things we could talk about. You’re not voting for a pastor, you’re not voting for a spiritual leader, you’re voting for someone who has some sense of morality. Since the Bible says that the role of government is to punish evil doers and protect the good, you better have somebody in power who understands what is good and what is evil. And if you think homosexuality, abortion, sexual freedom, hating God are not evil, then you better go back and check your Bible again. How can people with that kind of agenda protect those who do good and punish those who do evil? That’s Romans 13’s definition of the role of government.

continuing,

If we have any sense of justice, if we have any sense of righteousness, if we want to make a little bit of a voice heard about what is right and about the role of government being to punish evil doers and protect the people who do right, then we better step up. I’m not sure what God has in the future, but I do know we can take His side and give Him honor.

The issue facing believers is one of right and wrong. Our responsibility to government is to side with individuals who have the clarity of mind to determine what is right and wrong. In this election, one side has clearly come out on the side of that which is ungodly and certainly wrong. That doesn’t mean the other side is pure and righteous and reflects biblical principles. It does mean, however, that at least they understand, as John cited in his opening remarks, what is good and what is evil.

#9  Posted by James Greig  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 3:31 PM

I am not very good with words but I am saddened by where our country is headed and the fact that it has turned its back on God and His Word and has taken God out of schools, court houses, and is allowing homosexuals to boast in their sin and marriage foundation is being attack and destroy. A President that allows so many abortions and does not care about this country and has run it into dee debt. More important christian family values are being destroyed.

#10  Posted by Elisabeth Robinson  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 6:35 PM

Thank you, Pastor MacArthur, for being willing to stand up for what is right and stand on the Word of God. I truly believe that we (citizens of the United States) have called down the wrath and judgement of God. It seems that we are already feeling the withdrawing of His protective hand on our nation. I have to think that the sword of judgement will soon fall. I pray that our Lord Jesus will come for His bride soon! Maranatha!

#11  Posted by Joe Carrillo  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 7:02 PM

@ Fred Butler ... Fred my problem is this .. can you please then help to justify going against all these scriptures ..

2 John 1 :8-11 e.s.v

8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

also

2 Cor. 6 :14-16 e.s.v.

14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God;

I understand what you are saying , I do .. But how do I justify going against God'd word. I thought the Lord left it to guide me for situations just as this. Besides Fred when Romney prays who is he praying to? When one of the bishops from the Mormon church prayed at the Republican convention, who was he praying to? on the national day of prayers , who will the Mormons that Romney brings in be praying to ? That is what I'm concerned with .. I mean are we really to think that his Anti-Christ Mormon doctrine is not to influence this man ? I hope you see where I am coming from .. I just want to make sure that my choice honors God .. that's all I want ... and that's all I ask people to ask themselves ..." Does Voting for a Mormon who has Anti-Christ theology glorify God ?"

#12  Posted by Nadine Smith  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 8:15 PM

Ditto #5 Posted by Joe Carrillo. You are correct. There is a bigger picture. One thing to remember is that GOD Is in absolute control. A lot of stuff surfaced from under the rug and out of the closet --- which includes hidden racism against blacks and I find most of it coming from inside the :church"! GOD Is at work and what's hidden in the dark is coming to light. Praise! the Lord. GOD works through people.

Now, with that said, it is also interesting how fast professing Christians are so ready to get President Obama out of the White House and replace him with an established Pagan worshiper who believes Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, etc., and who himself seeks to become a god.

Reminds me of Answers in Genesis. There are those who are so concerned (I am concerned) about the immoral issues that that's only what they see, speak and fight to change and they get all caught up while there are others who are attacking the very foundation of Christianity - trying to remove GOD (which they can't -- Praise! the Lord).

The point I'm trying to make is GOD Is still in control of all things including the election. The scary part is that so many professing Christians are so ready to vote for Romney that GOD may give them what they want. How ever way it goes, remember, GOD Is in absolute control and everything is right on schedule. Keep your eyes and mind stayed on HIM continually - especially now. If Romney is elected to Office, it will be a "false sense of peace" for many and the Scriptures speaks of it as well.

I don't know how I am going to vote that day. But right now, voting for a well established Mormon for President of the U.S. is inconceivable -- how would that relate to the apple of GOD 's eye -- Israel. Inconceivable. But GOD. Amen.

I'll stop now because anything I write further would be me babbling.

Praise! the Lord.

In Him

#13  Posted by Nadine Smith  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 8:17 PM

Maranatha!

#14  Posted by Jason Spadaro  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 9:04 PM

I visited Grace Community Church the day Pastor MacArthur preached the sermon on Homosexuality ( September 23). It was great to be able to visit on day he decided to preach a timely and wonderful sermon. I appreciated the fact that he was willing to speak a little about politics as he usually does not. His recent sermons on abortion and homosexuality are examples to be followed by any pastor wanting to preach any type of sermon dealing with political and/or moral issues. Stick to scripture, and discuss everything in light of what scripture would say.

#16  Posted by Monty Dicksion  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 9:36 PM

I've just finished part 1 on abortion. The most comprehensive treatment of the subject I have heard.

NOW -

It's good to talk to, inform and educate, those sympathetic to the argument.

But ... what steps are being taken to place the party on notice, the party that establishes this in its platform, to call them on what they are doing, and to call them on it IMMEDIATELY and directly?

It's OK to talk about our objections to the party's platform with a group of people receptive to listening.

Who is going to challenge those unreceptive ones? Who is going to do it before it goes one day further?

I get confronted with such platform claims as this and others nearly daily. When I'm confronted I say IMMEDIATELY, "Challenge! This is not right!" But I'm just a nobody. I want to help - may I do anything to lend my support to GTY's effort to challenge this platform?

#17  Posted by Joseph Tucker  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 10:04 PM

Greeting Pastor John, as a Preacher of the Gospel myself, I find it hard to vote for either of these ungodly men. We all know that President Obama has sinned greatly before God, but let’s not be so quick to tell our congregations to vote for a Mormon neither. We all know there is No Such Thing, as The Lesser of Two Evils. Lest we forget, the lesser is still evil.

It’s not just about homosexuals and abortions, it’s all about SIN. We as Americans “Christians” have failed, by not standing up for the Word of God (long before now). If the Word of God had been preached the way it should, (Pastor John you have preached) the President and any other sinners would not dared or tried this evil we’re seeing.

Mitt Romney and Obama are not saved, they both are lost, and one is know better than the other one. Mormonism doctrine is from the pit of Hell, we must not fool ourselves. We must not look away and say “it’s Ok to vote for him” He doesn't believe in Our Lord Jesus Christ, The Cross, The Incarnation, Virgin Birth and many other trues in God’s Word. My hope is that we pray for the Church that many in it will be saved.

I agree with (the comment) Joe Carrillo 100% “ So based on this text , based on the fact that Mormonism is Anti-Christ cult that leads people to hell , How am I supposed to vote for Anti-Christ Candidate ? “

#18  Posted by Jeremiah Johnson  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 10:28 PM

Joe (#11),

I'm not sure what those passages have to do with how you vote this November. You're not entering into a business partnership or a marriage with the candidate you vote for--neither are you inviting him into your home, welcoming him into fellowship, or ministering alongside him for the sake of the gospel. You're simply exercising a privilege that most believers in history have never dreamed of: to have some small, sanctifying influence on your political leadership.

And remember, John's not endorsing any candidate. He's bringing biblical principles to bear in our lives, exhorting us to be salt and light in a wayward society. When it comes to politics, that often means choosing the best of the bad options. John's purpose is to help us think biblically about the bad options in front of us and act accordingly.

#19  Posted by Robyn Wallis  |  Monday, October 01, 2012at 11:35 PM

To those who believe that it is unscriptual to vote for a pagan in our national elections (or state or local elections as well, for that matter), how many pagans have you voted for in the past?

#20  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 5:30 AM

Joe (#11) and also Nadine in (#12)

I'll break this up into two posts because of comment limitations.

Fred my problem is this .. can you please then help to justify going against all these scriptures ..

2 John 1 :8-11 and 2 Cor. 6 :14-16

I understand what you are saying , I do .. But how do I justify going against God'd word.

I am not entirely sure if you do know what I am saying. Neither one of those passages are relevant to the issue of politics in America or who we vote for. They have to do with matters inside the church. So if a Mormon, or any unqualified person who is not a Christian, attempted to become a pastor in a local Church you could appeal to both of these passages. In the case of secular politics in a secular government (and without rehashing all the debate about Christianity’s influence in America, I mean “secular” in the general sense of the word), those passages don’t apply.

Continuing,

I thought the Lord left it to guide me for situations just as this.

When God was preparing to send Israel into exile under the total domination of the rank, pagan nation of Babylon, He told the people through the prophet Jeremiah to,

4 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, to all who were carried away captive, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem to Babylon:

5 Build houses and dwell in them; plant gardens and eat their fruit.

6 Take wives and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, so that they may bear sons and daughters-- that you may be increased there, and not diminished.

7 And seek the peace of the city where I have caused you to be carried away captive, and pray to the LORD for it; for in its peace you will have peace. Jeremiah 29:4-7).

Note verse 7. They were to “seek the peace of the city.” How did they accomplish that command by God? By compromising their convictions as God’s chosen people? Of course not. By being model citizens who sought the welfare of Babylon. You know, cruel, mean, brutal colonial Babylon who destroyed nations and took kings captive.

We have be sovereignly placed into a country that is far removed from Babylon. Our government actually allows the citizens to participate in the election of the national leadership. As a Christian who has been sovereignly placed in this country, I can seek the peace of the city, so to speak, by voting for individuals who I believe best represent the principles of righteousness as laid out in Scripture. Does that mean we only vote for born-again, Bible believing Christians? That would certainly be awesome and ideal, but it isn’t reality.

Instead, we look to Scripture to give us a basic outline of what is good and right before the Lord. As I cited from John’s address on abortion above, that is seeking the election of individuals who have a basic understanding of righteousness. In our day and with this election there are two individuals who are polar opposites in this regards.

#21  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 5:31 AM

Continuing from #20

Continuing,

Besides Fred when Romney prays who is he praying to?

No one. But place Romney in historical context. Pretty much all of the founding fathers, and I am think about Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc. were not Christians. They were along the lines of theistic rationalists. Their view of God was something along the lines of the “great architect” in the sky as the Masonic Lodge members traditionally describe God. Their prayers were just as ineffectual as Romney’s. However, when they were elected, did they do their jobs effectively for the nation? Would Romney?

Continuing,

Does Voting for a Mormon who has Anti-Christ theology glorify God ?"

Let me ask you this. When you go in to have back surgery, or heart surgery, or cancer treatments, will you by glorifying God if your doctor happens to be a Mormon or a Hindu? Or are you more concerned that he will do what he claims to do, that is, treat you properly?

#22  Posted by Adaeze Agada  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 6:40 AM

Isn't the world on a downward spiral anyhow? So if Republicans are nominated and we fend off gay marriage for 8 years, what good will that do? If Obama is elected (which is the obvious) and the ungodly agenda is propagated, isn't this meant to happen? It seems to me that Christians are going against the grain, trying to stop the world from going bad but we're already here. When I see the immorality of America, my confidence in God is strengthened because I know this is his judgment; this is meant to happen. But both candidates do not know the truth so why bother. Looking with my secular eyes I would rather Obama win because most who oppose him (not all but most) are either uncomfortable with his ethnicity, seek to gain financially with Romney or both, and this sort of tone irritates me the most. Romney doesn't do it for me but I respect John MacArthur's opinion very much and it seems like his sway is toward the right, bummer. I planned to vote for Obama but now I think I wont vote at all. I can't reconcilethe decision for either side.

Greetings from Texas,

Adah

#23  Posted by George Smith  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 9:06 AM

Thank you for taking a stand for what is right. I haven't heard too many pastor/preachers taking this stand. It's time for us spiritual leaders to preach the truth about what this present leadership stands for. It may cost us but if we lose our moral compass what will our nation look like four years from now. Thanks again for your courage to preach the word. Pastor George Smith, FBC of Lloyd, Fl.

#24  Posted by Mae Ella Jones  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 9:11 AM

I had decided not to vote for either candidate. Not wanting to dishonor God with such clear evidence of both sides anti-God stands. Thank you for the compelling info. I will be praying!

#25  Posted by Nadine Smith  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 9:19 AM

(2nd post) Could it be that we have moved soooooo far as individuals and a nation away from the things of GOD that we are at this point ? Could it be the truth that many just do not like President Obama as a person and they hide behind the political process and will even elect a Mormon to become the next President of the Divided States of America? [Just a thought] Could it be that GOD Is giving us now Mitt Romney as a presidential candidate - a man who is so much further away from GOD than President Obama? [Think about it]

Praising the Lord.

GOD knows the end from the beginning and HE Is in absolute control. This nation (and the world) is reaping exactly what has been sown in the hearts of many and only they who are truly in Christ - those who have been born again of the Spirit - GOD 's Spirit, will be saved from the wrath of GOD - is coming.

Maranatha!

The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil. [Matthew 12:35, NASB]

#26  Posted by Jeremiah Johnson  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 10:14 AM

Nadine (#25),

Please don't misunderstand John's point--he's not decrying one candidate in favor of another. He's exposing a political and cultural movement that's actively supporting, endorsing, encouraging, and promoting the sins of Romans 1 in our society. If we make this about individual candidates, we miss the whole point.

Listen again to John's sermons--the scope of what he's saying is much larger than the differences between two men.

#27  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 10:32 AM

Adaeze asks (#22),

Isn't the world on a downward spiral anyhow? So if Republicans are nominated and we fend off gay marriage for 8 years, what good will that do?

No one is arguing that we look to conservative politicians as a means to rescue the spiritual condition of our country. Certainly John is not saying that. However, we as Christians in America have been sovereignly entrusted with the opportunity and privilege to be salt and light in our society in a political fashion. We need to take a general stand for righteousness. You do that by voting for individuals who will uphold the values that closely reflect what we know to be right as defined by Scripture. That doesn’t mean a guarantee win because “God is on our side,” but it does mean we honor God and what He has blessed us as far as our participation in our society will be.

Looking with my secular eyes I would rather Obama win because most who oppose him (not all but most) are either uncomfortable with his ethnicity, seek to gain financially with Romney or both, and this sort of tone irritates me the most.

I totally think this is the media propaganda talking that I believe you have errantly embraced. I live in CA. The folks I know who oppose the president do not do so because of his race. It is because of his anti-American ideas along with the unrighteousness he advocates as John mentioned in his message. In fact, if you honestly evaluated what most individuals who oppose the president really think, I would bet it would be ideological, not racial.

Additionally, there is nothing wrong with wanting to seek financial gain with a Romney win. Wealth is a good thing if used wisely, and I want America and Americans wealthy so we can influence the world in a positive way by withstanding wickedness and helping the weak. The current government has demonstrated a great irresponsibility with squandering money on foolish things. I trust normal folks who have more of their money to spend it wisely and charitably, than government.

#28  Posted by Ron Mose  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 10:47 AM

Thank you Pastor MacArthur for addressing this critical situation in our country. Our true servants of God should be preaching this message. We need to stand up for God and not shrink back for fear of what man can do. This is spiritual warfare and we must be prepared for it in our churches. You are right to say that this is not preaching politics, you are preaching the truth that determines what path this country is going to take. The godless may not like it but they need to at least have been told what is ahead for us if we allow sinners to blaspheme our Lord.

We should shout it from the house tops! If christians are afraid to expose this work of Satan then they need to get before God and ask forgiveness for not standing firm in the Word of God.

May God's Holy Spirit wake us up from the pulpets to the assembly.

We either belong to God or the adversary of eternal life.

Thank you for your Godly stand and sharing it.

#30  Posted by Nadine Smith  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 11:37 AM

(3rd post)

#26 Jeremiah Johnson

There is no misunderstanding on my part. It is just as you said, "the scope of what he's saying is much larger than the differences between two men."

Pastor John MacArthur is my pastor, online. Praise! the Lord. : -)

#31  Posted by Lynda Ochsner  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 12:23 PM

Thank you John MacArthur for addressing this issue. I listened to both of these recent messages, something all Christians need to hear and consider.

I am also saddened to see that so many Christians do not have a solid biblical grasp of the situation, in how they reason, as they confuse issues of the church with how we conduct ourselves in our political world: as though what is meant for the church and church history is the same as a secular country's political leadership. Many do not realize the truth about America's founding fathers, either, supposing that they were Christians and that this is the first time to elect a non-Christian. As has been pointed out, the leading founding fathers of this country were theistic rationalists, those who embraced Open Theism (many different paths to God, including the American Indian religion and any other pagan beliefs), along with a few deists and unitarians.

#33  Posted by Joel Longberry  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 12:59 PM

Thank you, Pastor MacArthur, for taking a stand for the truths of God's Word. My wife and I are in complete agreement agreement with your position and will be praying that the Lord uses you to impact our entire nation. May God continue to bless you as you step into the "lion's den".

#35  Posted by Holly Schrader  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 3:00 PM

Yesterday afternoon a Mormon friend came by my house with her husband and they both displayed impatience and bold anger towards me that I had suggested in the past that they were in a false church and "doomed to hell." The husband became so enraged at my calm persistence in standing for the truth, Sola Scriptura, that he had to get out of his truck and take a walk down the street. My friend insisted I look at the Mormon dogma again, because I was very mistaken.

This behavior, which I had never experienced before from this friend, was a red flag to me. The point is that once Romney is in office, I feel he will embolden Mormons further and significantly enable the proliferation of this Satanic deception.

We need to ask ourselves, which is the worse outcome, Americans losing materially, or losing spiritually? Which candidate would do the most damage by deceiving souls and relegating them to eternal damnation? Who is going to score the most for Satan and lead the greatest number of persons to hell?

Romney is not just going to fix the economy, he is going promote Mormonism and its lies. I believe he has as a goal to lift up and empower the Mormon church. If you saw the anger and aggressiveness of these Mormon "friends" who decided to pay me a call, you too might dread what a Mormon president could do by promoting this spiritual deception, and what his presence in the presidential race is already doing to embolden his fellow converts.

#36  Posted by James Walker  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 3:21 PM

I appreciation a nationally known speaker/preacher/pastor like John MacArthur taking a stand against the proclamations for immorality in America at the highest levels of government just as I, a fellow pastor am receiving "push back" from some loyal Democrats in my congregation for preaching about current immoral trends . Why don't others like Joel Osteen, Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah and yes, Jimmy Swaggart to name just a few make a louder statement. A few have barely touched the subject while others and completely silent. It is a shame how prominent ministers are leaving honest/moral politicians to fight the battle alone. One can't help but wonder if there is more concern over lost contributions and consequently "air time" than be a prophetic voice addressing wickedness in high places. God has called us to be both priest (pastor) and prophet in this time of sin. Thank you Pastor MacArthur for taking a Biblical stand in the ever darkening days of American immorality. We are looking for a leader ... please continue addressing this relevant subject.

#38  Posted by Monty Dicksion  |  Tuesday, October 02, 2012at 11:41 PM

Someone stated above that they respect John MacArthur's opinion. The best that I can tell, John MacArthur was not giving his opinion. I deal with that myself regularly, I'm told, "Everybody has a right to his or her own opinion." Indeed they do. An opinion is "red is the best color for a sports car," or "chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream." Where it come to central issues of the Bible, the Christian does not deal in opinion, but truth claims.

#39  Posted by Sheryle Thompson  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 6:14 AM

People, please focus on the issues here.

Firstly, you are saying we can't vote for a Mormon...what do you think voting for Obama is? Do you believe he is a Christian? If not, then whatever he is, (Muslim? Atheist? Nominal Agnostic?) he is PRO-ABORTION. He is the most liberal president this country has ever known!

This administration cannot be allowed to continue their regime...we have to vote the issues, Christians. If we don't vote for Romney, we are handing the win over to Obama. Please consider these things, and go out and vote! We are killing millions of babies a year, we can't let this continue. We know that Ryan and Romney are not pro-abortion, we need to again, stick to the issues and whatever we do, get out and vote! Don't be swayed by all these debates on religion, we need to save these babies, and stop the liberals from running our schools and taking over every aspect of our rights as Christians!

#41  Posted by Nadine Smith  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 11:04 AM

#39 Sheryle Thompson

Matters very much to me, but it is not my focus.The problem is sin. As a result, we will have issues in this life. (Praise the Lord.) Not one President has yet stopped abortion since its inception and it won't stop even if Romney takes the White House.

Reminds me of the passage in Matthew 16:22-23: "Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, 'God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You.' But He turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.'"

I will take heed as well.

#42  Posted by Marcia Dersch  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 11:26 AM

I see a huge difference between the two candidates in the moral realm based on their records. As far as being Anti-God,there is one who has upheld freedom of religion and free expression over the other who has shut Him out of the picture regardless of what either purports to be their religion...as well described in Dr. MacArthur's writings and messages.

Thinking it noble to refrain from voting is an attitude I have come across before. I am shocked by it! We have never had any candidate in previous elections meet all of our expectations,values,religious preference,etc.

It seems to me that there is a wave of discontent within a certain philosophy of politics that has swayed many in this direction. Instead of a third party spoiler candidate,we have this "opt out" position instead.

If there is a choice between two options, who in their right mind wouldn't take the opportunity to choose the one who more closely fits their attitudes and values? The abortion issue alone should be enough to convince someone to vote.

I believe the "opt outers" may have blood on their hands.

#43  Posted by Nameco Ward  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 12:12 PM

I agree whole-heartedly with John MacArthur!! Everyone is so fixiated on the fact that Romney is a Mormon and the mormon belief. I don't agree with his faith at all. I also don't believe in the President's faith. I'm not sure about his practice of christianity. It seems to me he has some unitarianism beliefs along with agnostic beliefs so I mean who's the lesser of two evils?

I think many are missing the point when it comes to the two candidates. True Romney is a mormon but he at least has value for life and the sanctity of marriage. Those are our biblical and spiritual values. The question we have to ask ourselves, are we willing to go with the candidate who is willing to protect innocent life of an unborn child and who believes in the biblical definition of marriage or do we go with the candidate who has no regard for life of an unborn child and who has no respect that God ordained marriage between one man and one woman?

In my opinion it comes down to voting for the candidate that support our spiritual values. There is no right candidate but we have to be responsible voters and uphold biblical and spiritual values.

#44  Posted by Steven Donnelly  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 12:34 PM

Amen my brother! Your words were right on target and you are right, this is not about politics, it is about what the Bible declares.

#45  Posted by Destiny Byrd  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 2:09 PM

It gives me hope that we still have some people in the church who will stand up for the truth. I have to remind myself that there is still some good out there. There are still some people who stay true to their values no matter what. There are still some people who aren't afraid of what man thinks. Not many people especially at McArthur's level, would take such a bold stance without regard to the backlash.

#46  Posted by Brad Kennedy  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 2:30 PM

You speak with presumption Marcia. I cast a vote for Ron Paul in the Alabama Primary for President and my conscience will be clear before God and man by not voting again in the General Election. There is no need to vote twice. Please be reminded of the words of our Lord: Anyone who has hates his brother, is guilty enough to be sentenced for murder.

#47  Posted by Brad Kennedy  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 2:35 PM

I am thankful that none of us have been chosen to govern a diverse, divided 250 million person plus nation. It is surely a burden that we bloggers couldn't bear.

#48  Posted by Brad Kennedy  |  Wednesday, October 03, 2012at 3:06 PM

Vanity of vanities! All is vanity says the Preacher!

#49  Posted by Craig Danielson  |  Thursday, October 04, 2012at 1:13 AM

John MacArthur is a staunch advocate of truth. I thank God often for his ministry. After reading most of the blogs, Jeremiah Johnson seems to have a proper focus on this issue as noted in his #18 post.

Before I could vote, this country elected an apostate in 1960 and with the help of God saved us from nuclear annihilation. His morals were in question and so scan ahead to the last president who gave us a surplus and both of these characters would not pass a moral lithmus test. I have been a union carpenter for 40 years so my vote will be cast for President Obama. That vote is not for a righteous man, none are and I do not believe in abortion nor homosexuality. The one is murder and the other an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Has anybody thought of the fact that the president is bringing home the troops as promised. My point on that is, are not these men and women just as precious in God,s eyes as the unborn child. We need, as true believers to be salt and light in this wicked world and finally I would say to Adaeze Agada to go and cast your vote for Obama and whatever you do, do it unto the glory of God.

#50  Posted by Warner Aldridge, Jr  |  Thursday, October 04, 2012at 4:36 AM

I truly thank God for Pastor MacArthur to speak out on this specific topic especially coming at a time in which many believers of Christ are truly at a divide when it comes for who to vote for in this upcoming election. It certainly grieves my heart to see what the Bible verifies in Matthew 24 as to the signs of the end times and what will be taking place. I also find it very interesting to see how the democratic party verified everything in Romans 1 that God looks down upon to be right. I am thankful to the Lord that Pastor MacArthur would speak out on these specific topics that seems to be plauging not only in the world but creeping in the church.

With that being said however I didnt understand is why would Dr. MacArthur only single out the democratic party? I agree with everything that he said about that they are verifying evil and promoting evil and by no means am I labeling myself as a democrat. However with Romney there are sinful notions that he has stated. People believe that he is against homosexual marriages, however if we do our research he stated that he wouldnt mind for homosexuals to be within our boy scouts. As well as what about his tax breaks for the rich and increasing them on the poor.

I truly believe that we cannot single the ills of one political party out and how refreshing it would have been to hear someone speak the truth on not just one party but both parties as well and having someone to encourage us as believers to pray because I cannot honestly see myself voting for either one of them. Not saying that I wont vote at all because I will exercise that right to vote, however I dont agree with either candidate.

I think as believers we have to truly pray and seek wisdom because only pointing out the sins of one party leads us to categorizing sin as one being greater than the other. I truly thank God for Pastor MacArthur speaking out on this however I was disappointed that a preacher that I look up to would only speak out on the wrongs of one party and over look the wrongs of another.

May the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ be with us all.

#66  Posted by Marcia Dersch  |  Thursday, October 04, 2012at 2:01 PM

Our constitutional right to vote is one of the primary ways to exercise our freedom. This privilege can be squandered or used for the glory of God and His purposes.

I am so thankful that we have a participatory government. This is a momentous opportunity to stem the tide of the enemy in this country...that we, as believers, might live quiet and peaceable lives.

My candidate of choice did not make the nomination. But, rather than be "divided and conquered",I have the awesome opportunity and responsibility to choose between two candidates.

We are reminded in scripture that "There is a way that seems right to a man,but the end thereof is the way of death." And also, "To him that knows to do good and does not do it,to him it is sin."

So whether or not to vote and who to vote for is a choice we all will make. I believe God will hold us accountable for both.

Therefore we must practice God-given, Biblically based discernment.Truth has been so distorted, and when that happens we examine the source of Truth to guide our actions.

That is exactly what Dr. MacArthur has done here.

Is it "good" to vote against pro abortion,pro-homosexual,immoral use of our tax dollars,welfare state governance,in other words, the Romans 1 platform of immorality? ...YES.

Wise use of resources,like our right to vote,is a principle throughout Scripture. Let's not squander it! Let's be good stewards of our country whenever possible.

Thank you Dr. MacArthur for this timely warning. May the Lord have mercy upon our country...and through this may many come to Know Him as Savior.

#67  Posted by Tim Eriksen  |  Thursday, October 04, 2012at 5:29 PM

#49 - I am confused. You acknowledge that abortion is murder and homosexuality an abomination, yet say you will vote for the candidate that staunchly supports both. Why? You then try to draw a comparison with abortion to bringing home the troops. Unfortunately that is not comparable.

First, military deaths (including suicide and illness) are about 2,000 per year. This has been true for at least thirty years give or take 500 deaths per year. Abortion kills over 1 million per year in the US.

Abortion is the intentional killing of an unborn innocent child. Our troops are volunteers who have been sent to a foreign country to fight against our enemies and to establish stable governments. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not unjust. (They maybe unwise in terms of loss of life and money, but that is different.) Thus the loss of life on the battlefield, while sad, is not the moral equivalent of murder. The President who sends a soldier into battle is not committing murder.

Sadly, I fear your vote is likely based more on the propaganda you have heard from 40 years in the union than on the truths of Scripture. My wife is a union member so I see the mailings. I think we all (myself included) need to make sure we base our view on social issues, taxes, war etc. on Scripture.

#50 There is a big difference between taxes and a party that is essentially endorsing the sins of Romans 1. The Bible is very clear on those sins. The Bible does not prescribe a proper level of taxes, (although interestingly God instituted a flat % tax for Israel. Thus I have no trouble believing that since God is just and fair that a flat tax is therefore just and fair).

I would also note that Romney has not called for a tax increase on the poor or the middle class. While we lack the space to discuss taxes fully. The rich, in general do not get tax breaks. On average, they pay a substantially higher dollar amount and a higher percentage than the poor and middle class. The poor actually pay no income taxes and have some or all of their payroll taxes refunded, in addition to assistance they may get for food, housing and education. In addition, the investment income of the rich is taxed twice, once on the corporate level at 35% and then again on dividends and/or capital gains at 15%, resulting in an effective rate near 50%.

The Republican Party is not God's Party. What John was pointing out is that one party has moved unbelievably far from God's standards. I think we all recognize that the other is imperfect but closer to the truth in these vital moral issues, and thus the better choice to support.

#68  Posted by Warner Aldridge, Jr  |  Friday, October 05, 2012at 4:26 AM

#66 I completely agree with your post.

#67 - Taxes were just one of the things that maybe wrong with the particular party and how things are viewed. However again we must not forget that the Republican party is not "free from sin" either. And I agree that one party has completely moved far from God's standards but to not comment on the fact that one has a mormon for a candidate and cannot simply single one out. Most of the evangelical preachers have been consistent in saying that BOTH parties give us not much to choose from. But like you said at the end of your post we all recognize that one is closer to truth in moral issues but what about spiritual issues? What about the fact that Mr. Romney believes that homosexual boy scouts are okay. To me and this is just me I dont think neither democrats are closer to the truth nor Republicans. Now I will say cause many will say why vote and thats where I agree with your comment on one party being closer in moral issues and those are primarily members of Congress but for the two presidential candidates i am at a loss of words. I couldnt vote for either one at this point. I think prayer should be the center and foundation for the vote we cast.

In total I think this discussion board has been great. Giving a chance to really see and again thankful for Dr. MacArthur speaking out on issues that some are ashamed to speak out on. I truly pray that this upcoming election leads us more toward prayer and the Cross of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and prayerfully we will use discernment in our voting. No matter who we vote for there is one truth and that the Lord is coming and let us seek to glorify Him and all we do

Grace and Peace

#69  Posted by Brian Moore  |  Friday, October 05, 2012at 10:23 AM

Gutsy stance that needs to be taken.

Every now and then I'll come across someone who claims to be an Evangelical Christian as well as a Democrat. I think they're confused about what at least what one of those things means. The Democratic party has gone so far over the line my "apostate radar" goes up when someone makes such a claim.

#70  Posted by Josue Rodriguez  |  Friday, October 05, 2012at 12:47 PM

It calls my attention the fact that many christians are saying that we can't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon. However, they forget that Obama is not a christian as well. He calls himself a christian but in reality he is a humanist, and his view on God and Christ are not biblical at all. The point is that both Romney and Obama are anti-christs in the sense that they both deny our Lord Jesus Christ. We can't make this election about religion, as Pastor MacArthur said: "we are not electing a pastor". We should vote for the candidate that we think will serve the nation better in defending our constitutional rights, our moral values, and leading the nation out of the financial situation we are in. At the end we just have to remember that God is in control and that He is moving everything to bring end of time; so I will cast my vote with a clean conscience trusting that the Lord knows what He is doing, and even if my candidate loses I will trust in the Lord... He knows more that I do. Amen.

#71  Posted by Justin Edwards  |  Friday, October 05, 2012at 1:10 PM

I am very thankful for what Pastor MacArthur and GTY has made available over the last few weeks. These are critical issues.

My question is with regards to voting for a candidate who is not 100% pro-life. It seems Christians who are taking the position to not vote for Romney because of his position on life are being vilified by internet bullies for it.

What is your position on Christians not voting for Romney due to him not being 100% pro-life, which is consistent with the Church of Latter-day Saints position?

My observation is that Romney has been embraced by the major secular pro-life organizations, yet he is unapologetic in his position to make exceptions for rape and incest.

That is a deal-breaker for me, which I derive based on biblical principle that all life is precious and God hates the shedding of all innocent blood.

Though they differ in the degree of their pro-choice position, both Romney and Obama defend the woman's "right" to murder children in the womb. It is for this primary reason I will not be voting for Mitt Romney and am looking into the Constitution Party candidate.

#72  Posted by Smith Pineo  |  Friday, October 05, 2012at 2:36 PM

I agree with John that we see Romans 1 rejection of God, and promotion of abortion and homosexual marriage in the platform of the USA Democratic Party. But what is not spoken plainly in his analysis is Republican Party lip service. Any notion that Republican legislators have meaningfully addressed the horror of abortion, or the shame of homosexual marriage, is not supported by the record.

I am reminded of Matthew 21:31, when Jesus asks, "Which of the two did the will of his father?” In the context of the USA Republican and Democratic parties, however, the answer is neither.

#74  Posted by Josh Kittinger  |  Sunday, October 07, 2012at 6:21 AM

I find it interesting--well, not interesting but tiresome actually--to see some professed Christians so seemingly distraught by a Mormon candidate. I wonder why these people appear to be woefully unmoved by the democratic party's platform... Yes, mormonism is a false religion, but we live in a fallen world and are faced with picking the lesser of two evils. The lesser one is obvious to any sane individual. It's particularly obvious to a believer. I'm not buying it.

#77  Posted by Harry Myers  |  Sunday, October 07, 2012at 9:52 AM

Sadly, in this country's current state of affairs, I'm seeing an inability for government to function because of the withdrawal from being God fearing into a reformed version of a non-biblical, all loving, non-holy, figment of decades of lost generations imaginations of sinners, blinded by their own lusts of self, that can no longer recognize our own sad state of sinfulness. We cannot or should not replace what church was suppose to do throughout history, with government in any form, which has proven itself far more inept at prescribing morality to the masses. Churches have lost their bite, fight, and might. What once was a counteractive force against runaway political machines, our political class continue to take it upon themselves to attempt the role of God instead of (in the case of our government), being civil SERVANTS. In our recent past, every Sunday, the church had the ability to hold these servants feet to the holy fire. Since the removal of a holy and just God from public schools and the public forum, the lost political class throws around the word of God so loosely, without forethought, that perhaps one has sufficient reason to ask, are they worshiping foreign God's? The ignorant child (both children and adults) are in the final march toward an undeniable meeting with God, that will be nothing like their imaginations had hoped.

#78  Posted by David Floyd  |  Sunday, October 07, 2012at 11:45 AM

I am saddened by the opinions voiced by many of my brothers and sisters here, but I respect your right to a different conclusion. We are commanded, "Do not worry!" Yet, there is a stench of fear throughout this thread. Are the gates of Hell really prevailing and wresting victory from God's children?

So the battle begun in the Spirit, is now to be decided at a worldly ballot box? Is the enemy of MY enemy, NOW my friend? Does the END justify the MEANS? The message from the pulpit is to be COMPROMISE? "Uh, well, this is the LESSER of evils!" Seriously? Your holy and righteous God is REQUIRING you to choose SOME form of evil?

Our witness as representatives of God's HEAVENLY kingdom is diminished as we fail to agree what the Gospel IS and how best to REFLECT to the condemned, WHERE our treasure lies.

We wear T-shirts boldly asserting; "This is earth is NOT my home!" Yet, you'd never guess that listening to the earth-bound panic emanating from this blog. If the church refuses to endure this administrations' progressive socialism, what would EVER make us think we could endure REAL persecution?

Can anyone honestly say they think God would present the two candidates before us,...and COMPEL us to support one whom has served as a mature Elder in a blasphemous, mockery of the gospel, that joins Lucifer and our Savior as "brothers", and repeats the original lie; "Ye shall be as God!?"

Consider this election and Jesus' calling of Simon the Zealot, whom advocated the use of external force to reform his world. The silence from the gospels is DEAFENING regarding the Lord's rejection of such outward attempts of reformation. Neither allowing himself to be made King, nor lending himself to a political overthrow, our Lord REFUSED to make this earthly existence the anchor of his passion.

He has food that "we know not of". Are we clamoring after "food that perishes" rather than "manna from heaven?" My brethren here raise the issue of "rights", moral, civic and spiritual. Did our Lord SEIZE upon his rights while on his brief pilgrimage as a STRANGER to a new and BETTER country as a HEAVENLY citizen?

Whatever is NOT done out of faith, is a SIN. Let each person be fully convinced in his own mind. Increase my faith, Lord

#79  Posted by Leilani Floyd  |  Sunday, October 07, 2012at 12:06 PM

We speak of issues such as Abortion and Homosexual Marriage meanwhile the “True” enemy attacks our foundation “Truth”. The Government does not dictate our morality never has and never will. How many “moral” Presidents have been elected and yet Abortion continues to flourish. Morality is not fought in the Political arena.

We have always been faced with the lessor of two evils. The question is which is less evil? One that could cause the financial downfall of America, spread the wealth, hit us in our pocket book, drive the church (True Church) into hiding because of persecution for standing on God’s Word without compromise, have blood on our hands as some have implied or the one that has Eternal implication causing even one soul to be damned for eternity or lead the Sheep astray and lose its Lampstand and still cause the True church to be persecuted.

In the end, if you do the math, the lessor of two evils still equals evil. The question is do we compromise the Truth as the World watches? As for me, because the flesh wants to take control as if I have any control of the outcome, I will be throwing myself on God’s Mercy and choose Truth… Literally… on the ballot I will choose Truth and ask that God’s WILL be done.

And for those who disagree… let us then agree to disagree and do what our conscious tells us… or better yet, if led by the Spirit, what the Spirit leads us to do and may the Foundation of our faith “God’s Truth” prevail.

#81  Posted by Dan Beaver  |  Monday, October 08, 2012at 5:36 AM

[Josh Kittinger] said: "I find it interesting--well, not interesting but tiresome actually--to see some professed Christians so seemingly distraught by a Mormon candidate."

I find it equally tiresome to hear professed Christians rationalizing their vote for a cultist, which is what Romney is according to most Christian organizations. The reason I find it tiresome is because there are other choices.

If there was ever a political party for Christians, the Constitution Party is it. Quite frankly, I don't understand why the Christian community in general, and Christian leaders in particular, haven't embraced this party.

But let's set Romney's cultist religion aside and look at policies.

Here's a list of 40 issues in which Romney and Obama essentially agree [http://tinyurl.com/9boov42]. My favorite, and the elephant in the room, is ObamaCare. Republicans have been gnashing their teeth opposing ObamaCare, yet it was patterned after Romney's health care program in the state of Mass. And Romney has stated that his program is a good model for the nation [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFmursxum1g]

As Alan Keyes so accurately questions in his video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R4KtYVF-74] "Why is it people think the guy who is failing to get things through is the greater evil, and the guy committed to the same policies who may be able to get them through, is the lesser evil?"

You folks are right, we are not electing a pastor or president of a college. We are electing the leader of this nation. If voters had no other choice than Romney, then OK, vote for him. But there are other choices, and one of those choices in particular, Virgil Goode, lines up way better with my political *and spiritual* views than Romney. But even Gary Johnson is a better choice than Romney, if we're going to use the "we aren't electing a pastor" argument. How can Christians take a stand like this? To stoop so low as to endorse a cultist who has essentially the same policies as "the enemy" Obama. And Romney has changed his mind so much on policies that what he says today can't be trusted, he'll change his mind (again) tomorrow.

The best Republican voters can hope for is to get a Trojan horse into the White House.

God help us.

- djb

#82  Posted by Robin Luce  |  Monday, October 08, 2012at 7:09 AM

It occurs to me that doing right in the eyes of the Lord often involves the choice of either doing something good/right at the right time; or, lacking a right thing to do--waiting until a good thing can be done.

Pastor--Is waiting--not participating--a Godly approach? Or, is this approach waiting-on-the-Lord confusion?

#83  Posted by Jeremiah Johnson  |  Monday, October 08, 2012at 9:36 AM

Dan (#81),

Neither John MacArthur or Grace to You has endorsed a presidential candidate--nor will we. The two sermons linked in this blog post are not arguing for a political party or telling you how to vote.

Our aim is to expose an ideology and a worldview that has adopted the sins of Romans 1 as its platform and is actively trying to promote those sinful lifestyles throughout our society. How you vote is between you and the Lord.

#84  Posted by Dan Beaver  |  Monday, October 08, 2012at 10:42 AM

Jeremiah (#83) - No, John isn't naming names, but he refers to the pagan platform of "one of the two parties..." The insinuation is there, that there are only two choices.

I am reminded of Dr. James Dobson and the 2008 election. Early on in the Republican primary season Dobson stated he would never vote for McCain. But later, after McCain won the nomination, Dobson changed his tune and endorsed McCain. I dunno, is that lying? At any rate, Dobson wasted a perfect opportunity to focus his listeners on a third party. The Church doesn't need this kind of "leadership."

Don't get me wrong. I love and support Mac's ministry. But with all due respect, if Christian leaders are going to involve themselves in politics, they should lead, not follow.

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

- John Adams [letter to Jonathan Jackson, 02-Oct-1780]

The founders knew and understood the dangers of party loyalty. As one of this nation's forefathers once stated in a famous speech, the "spirit of party" has "baneful effects" upon the country; it is our "worst enemy"; it is a "frightful despotism"; it prevails on the "ruins of public liberty"; it "foments riot and insurrection"; it "opens the door to foreign influence and corruption"; people should "discourage and restrain it"; it "agitates...false alarms"; and, like a fire, if it is not quenched, it will "consume."

The two party mentality is killing us. At this point a third party is our only hope politically.

I understand that no political party is going to save America. I also know that God is in control, regardless who is in Washington. That faith in God's providence is why I can vote alone, if it comes to that. As John Quincy Adams (John Adams' son) once said, "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."

My God is bigger than the Republican Party. That apparently comes as a surprise to many Christians.

So, I will do what I have been doing for the last 20 years, supporting and voting for the presidential candidate that best represents my views and who I believe would best serve this country, regardless what letter is by his name. My conscience will not allow me to do otherwise.

Humbly submitted,

- djb

#85  Posted by Brad Kennedy  |  Monday, October 08, 2012at 2:37 PM

Jeremiah (#83)

Thank you dear brother for introducing clarity into the discussion! :) Take heart chosen elect!

When it comes to casting lots--"the decision belongs to the Lord"

"Let not your hearts be troubled..."

Praise the Lord for pastors who "need not be ashamed for accurately handling the Word." :)

Meditate on Psalm 131 beloved.

#86  Posted by Jeremiah Johnson  |  Monday, October 08, 2012at 4:12 PM

Dan (#84),

John's discussion of the two parties is not, as you inferred, a statement of exclusivity. It has to do with the context for his messages, as he's reacting to what he saw proclaimed and promoted in their conventions.

And as he stated in the second excerpt above, this isn't a discussion about politics, but about morality and biblical truth.