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Thursday, March 25, 2010 | Comments (65)

First, listen to this 5-minute clip:

Launch Player  |  Download  |  Full Sermon

Here's the topic for today's discussion:

It’s clear from Darwin’s own writings—he was a conflicted, tormented soul who was eaten alive by his own doctrines. In that sense, he’s like all the other false teachers who have popped up throughout history.

There will be more to say about this later, but let me pose the question John asked for discussion: “Why would we want to join forces with those whose effort is directly against the authority of the God of Scripture?”

Now, to be clear, no true Christian sympathizes with Darwin’s disdain for divine authority. Why then do so many Christians feel the need to acquiesce to the demands of a system with such anti-God, anti-Christian beginnings?


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#1  Posted by Carol Gayheart  |  Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 4:33 PM

“Why would we want to join forces with those whose effort is directly against the authority of the God of Scripture?”

Pride. Self-Love. Self-control. Self-Will. Self-Authority. All the same motivators which caused satan’s (I do not grant him any honor by capitalizing his name) fall. Which of us has not struggled to “have our own way?” No matter our level of spiritually maturity, we’ve all been there. And Pastor John is so right, if we can eliminate God and His authority, then WE rule ourselves, we make our own decisions, we answer to no one. That’s the same temptation that caused Eve and Adam to fall into sin. We may not “want” to join forces with those efforts, it most likely is unintentional on our part, but it happens because of our sinful human nature. However, those of us who claim Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior must continually battle against that evil human nature, and we must take up our cross daily and follow Him.

Someday we will each look directly on His face and won’t it be glorious to praise Him for all that we’ve learned about Him through His word and through observing His character by studying His creation?!

I’m thrilled with this new blog topic and look forward to growing closer to My Creator and Savior by learning more about Him, His power, and His authority!

May God continue to richly bless GTY!

#2  Posted by Elaine Bittencourt  |  Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 5:29 PM

I believe that the need to be accepted by people who are not Christians plays a big part on our "need to acquiesce to the demands of a system with such anti-God, anti-Christian beginnings". Some people feel silly to say that they believe in creation, not evolution.

Second, we are proud creatures and we have the need to feel wise, and certainly science helps man to achieve that.

People don't really realize that when they discard Genesis (the creation), they have denied the entire Word of God, for if we believe that one thing is not true, we have opened the door to a lot of other things in the bible that's might not be true as well, right?

It is understandable that the world denies creation and embraces evolution, they want to deny there's a God that they will eventually be accountable to. But Christians? We either stand on the Word or not, there's nothing in between. We either believe it by faith even when we don't completely understand it, or we are not really Christian, are we? Ultimately, believing that God created the universe the way it's described in Genesis, is about giving God all the glory. Which is something that fallen creatures fight against.

In Christ,


#3  Posted by Jose Hernandez  |  Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 6:25 PM

I first pondered on the Evolution or Creation question when I heard a sermon by a Word Of Faith/Prosperity speaker. He said somewhere between Genesis 1:1 and the rest of chapter 1 was when Evolution happened. I had never thought about it until then (2006).

Evolution for me was not important when I was in elementary school in the 70's. In the 80's. I went to a technical school and obtained a Associate Degree in electronics "Electronics Engineering Technician" therefore I did not have to take any classes that would lean towards the in depth teachings of Evolution.

In 2006 I started to understand the True Gospel through expository preaching by Pastors MacArthur and John Piper. This is when the black and white Bible turned into color for me and is still more vivid every day. Since then I RAN AWAY from the false Gospel.

"Now, to be clear, no true Christian sympathizes with Darwin’s disdain for divine authority. Why then do so many Christians feel the need to acquiesce to the demands of a system with such anti-God, anti-Christian beginnings?"

I think the only way I can answer this question is by relating it to my conversations with people who do not understand the Gospel and the main idea of God's Word from Genesis through Revelation.

Last Sunday a series called Life started in a cable network channel and again and again I heard the narrator throw in the word evolved. I had a discussion about the series and the topic of evolution with some co-workers, one of them a Christian, and they all leaned towards evolution vs creation. "Your taking the Bible literally" they said.

Having said all this to give a little background,

I think professing Christians who believe in evolution are just not aware of what it truly means and how it conflicts with God's Word. They are also not not aware of the severity of evolutions implications to God's Word because they are not being taught the Word.

By reading and understanding that the scripture indicates that there was no death before the fall... THAT DID IT FOR ME. It was clear to me that Creation is a must or the whole Bible is not true.

I really think it’s lack of knowledge of God’s Word and the True Gospel. Once one understands the Gospel and it’s main Idea, the theme of evolution pops up when wittnessing and one has to come to grips with the Truth of God’s Word. The arguments that arise in wittnessing will make you study , reasearch and listen to theologeans and then one has a better understanding.

My sister had a saying "Either your pregnant or your not!" , no in - between.

Creation = God

Evolution = No God

Well, my apology for typos and improper grammer. My respects to all who have a higher education than me here. I am just a “Cable Guy” but I can see the Truth in Gods creation. I am a sinner who without God’s Justification through my repentance am done!

God Bless you all

Jose Hernandez

Bronx, N.Y.

#4  Posted by Lynda Ochsner  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 6:33 AM

Perhaps it is lack of knowledge for some, especially new and less mature believers. But where I really have a problem is with those who profess Christ (for many years) and who also presume to lead and teach others -- pastors who supposedly know the word of God, yet claim Genesis 1 is poetry and buy into Progressive Creation or similar variations.I've also observed a difference between some believers -- and here I am again referring to pastors/teachers. Some may at first accept the general secular teachings they've heard, but when they hear a good presentation of the truth concerning creation, it makes an impact and they reconsider the matter. Others, however, are spiritually hardened and refuse to listen to the biblical side, even declaring with scorn that "those young-earthers have as much of an agenda as the evolutionists."The Holy Spirit teaches all of us as believers, and without the Holy Spirit such matters cannot be discerned. So when someone who professes Christ, and leads and teaches others, still has such an attitude against biblical creation, I wonder about their true spiritual condition. As one Christian pastor/teacher put it, "God's people are not offended by God's word. God's people will happily accept anything that's in this Bible. God's people love God's word."

#5  Posted by Elaine Bittencourt  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 7:06 AM

# 4 - Lynda.

No wonder Christians in the pew can be lead by anything, any wind, any false doctrine, if even the leadership has got no conviction at all! That concerns me. The men who should be leading are just as lost as the lost sheep.

I really like what you quoted: "God's people are not offended by God's Word".

In Christ,


#6  Posted by Mary Elizabeth Palshan  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 7:40 AM

Lynda and Elaine:

I picked right up on Lynda's comment, too, Elaine. "God's people are not offended by God's Word".

I think of Ps 119:103, How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Isn't this so true, concerning God's word being sweeter than honey? And I believe that Calvinists (which I don't like that name either) understand this better than anyone else. We, as five pointers (sounds like a deer) know some of the hardest sayings of God, yet we accept them all and even grow to love them dearly.

More on topic later…

#7  Posted by Scott Thompson  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 9:31 AM

as to the argument on calvinism go to recent messages and listen to johns sermon on THE ATONEMENT; REAL OR POTENTIAL awsome teaching this is the most clearest message i have ever heard on this subject this message should be put on youtube the body of christ desperately needs this message it comes down to this if only a few are being saved then the atonement is limited so who limits it man or GOD? will we praise GOD forever for something a men did or will we praise him forever for what he did? I dont know about you but i give all the credit to GOD! if ever any dought on this subject wouldnt you trust GODS sovernty over mans any day of the weak GOD BLESS GTY

#8  Posted by Douglas Mollett  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 12:24 PM

Evolution is at its very core, UNBELIEF. Men and women who refuses to believe that God created the heavens and the earth, and rested on the 7th day (Genesis 1), will attempt to explain Creation without a Creator. The bottom line is that the Creator GOD spoke the universe as we know it into existence(gen 1:1-2:3;psalm 104;psalm 19:1-6;psalm 33:6 and a host of others), but Man says in science that since God can't be seen, felt, tasted, or smelled, HE cannot be real, I learned that way back in middle school.

In Romans the 1st chapter, the Apostle Paul stated that these scientists are ''professing to be wise, they bacame fools"(verse 22) and elsewhere "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, They have done abominable works..."(psalm 14:1). Man has two options, either he can accept the word of the one who was there, or he can make up endless fables, because thats truly what evolution really is, its the belief that there can't possibly be a God, so heres what we think had to happen.

God has a message to the evolutionists who think they know more then HE does,

"Where were YOU when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell ME, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? SURELY YOU KNOW!" (Job 38:4,5 Emphasis mine)

I'll accept the word of the ONE who was there, I don't have a vivid imagination which is what evolution requires, GOD said it, that settles it, period. The bottom line is that scientists who aggressively defend evolution ultimately does so because if there is a GOD, and He did create the heavens and the earth(and ultimately us), then guess what? We are held accountable to HIM. Tragically, many of these people are going to find out on judgement day just who the Creator is (john 1:1-3,14; Col 1:15-18). He will be very real to them then, but it will be too late(revelation 20:11-15).

2 choices, evolution or GOD, I choose GOD, just like Joshua said in Josh 24:15, "And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. BUT AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD (emphasis mine)."

#9  Posted by John Joseph  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 12:52 PM

I believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe the story of creation set forth in Genesis. I believe God spoke in plain language, and did not use metaphors. How then can i possibly present the Gospel to anyone who has been made aware of scientific facts that point the universe and earth being MUCH older than what is stated in the Bible? How can i reconcile it within my own mind? It certainly isn't going to come from facts because scientists will have me believe that all the facts lie on their side. I believe God's word and trust in Him, but I simply cannot present the story of Creation without any evidence that refutes the claims made by today's scientific community. I am not the type of person who is just going to say to someone, "Listen, you're just gonna have to trust me on this one; God made the universe." When everyone else in the world will tell them otherwise and then give them evidence (even if it's false) to back it up. Does anyone know of good resources where i can fortify my case for Creation? Thank you.

#10  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 1:00 PM


Here are three excellent ministries. Lots of resources.


#11  Posted by Lynda Ochsner  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 1:12 PM

John,Those are good resources. One thing to especially keep in mind is the underlying issue of a person's presuppositions as to how they interpret the supposed "facts." There really are no "scientific facts" proving the age of the earth either way -- science deals with observable and repeatable events. Creation, by its very definition, is not observable nor repeatable. Origin science is more like archeology, looking at what we see now and coming up with ideas as to how it came to be as it is now. The evolutionist looks at the existing evidence (example: geologic layers of rocks) and interprets it as something done very slowly over millions of years (uniformitarianism, or other variations). We look at the exact same existing evidence, but understand the cause as the action of the catastrophic flood of Noah's day a few thousand years ago.

You can present all the young earth evidence you want, but so long as the person is spiritually hardened, it will not get through to them because they are still looking at it through their presuppositions -- including the idea that such things they observe can only occur over vast periods of time and not over just a short period of time, and other related godless ideas.

#12  Posted by John Joseph  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 1:44 PM

@ Fred,

Thank you for the resources. They will help greatly.

@ Lynda,

Thank you for your encouragement. I know i will face many who are hardened and as such will not hear anything I say.

#13  Posted by Mary Elizabeth Palshan  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Here is what Ravi Zacharias had to say about the existence of God and creation. It is truly beautiful.When I see the heavens and the work of Your hands, the moon and the stars, which You have made, what is there in man that You should keep him in mind? For You have set Your glory above the heavens.No wonder in December 68 boys were going around the dark side of the moon, they vouchsafed a glimpse of the earth given to no human eye. They saw the earth arising over the horizon of the moon, draped in a beauteous mixture of black, blue, and white, garlanded by the glistening light of the sun, against the black void of space. There is only one line that came to their minds, as the world waited-it was the opening lines of the Bible....."In the beginning, God." End of Quote.

Maybe we all should have a view from outer space to better grasp God's creation, but I think even that would not be enough to win over those who think they are in the know.

#14  Posted by Rick White  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 2:54 PM

"Why then do so many Christians feel the need to acquiesce to the demands of a system with such anti-God,anti-Christian beginnings?"

I believe the answer is actually very basic. The people that do this want to be Christians and still be loved or accepted by the world. Scripture tells us this is impossible John 15:19; Matthew 10:22; John 17:14. We,as Christians,have to draw the line. Are we going to be friends with Jesus Christ or are we going to be friends with the world? We have to draw the line somewhere and I believe that line is the word of God.

#15  Posted by David Ford  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 4:32 PM

As far as I understand, even setting aside the authority of scripture, that there is even plenty of scientific argumentation to debunk evolution. The main failure of the theory is that it cannot explain the origin of information, which is the basis of all DNA which makes up all life forms. Neither can Darwin nor any of his adepts explain the lack of time that has so far passed in the Universe since the creation "or so called big bang" that would be required to observe any change to the life forms we know. Clearly the Evolutionary theory is willful disregard of a Designer and our accountability to him.

#16  Posted by Christine Rastguelenian  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 5:10 PM


I am not sure if anyone mentioned Ray Comfort books and his website for alot of great books written by him on the subject of Darwin/Evolution

#17  Posted by Rob Kerr  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 5:17 PM

I struggled with what I learned in school versus what I learned in Genesis for a long time and still do to an extent. We could say things like, "What if the Big Bang everyone is talking about was really God creating the universe?" or "What if God created Evolution as a part of the ongoing process?" But we're still trying to fill in the blanks and that's a Christian no-no. I think it's harsh to say that if you've accepted Jesus into your life yet you struggle with creation that you are not a true Christian and should be ostracized.

Most of the New Testament was written by Paul and other apostles who met and spoke to Jesus firsthand and yet so many people want to say there was no proof Jesus existed. That actually concerns me more in regard to reaching a non-believer than trying to explain how people lived to be 900 years old in the beginning of time. That's just my 2 cents.

#18  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 6:08 PM

If anyone is interested, there are a couple of good journal articles by Dr. Terry Mortenson I always recommend for Christians to read that places the importance of a literal Genesis in perspective:


Philiosphical naturalism and the age of the earth:

Jesus, evangelical scholars, and the age of the earth:

#19  Posted by Gabriel Powell (GTY Admin)  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 6:18 PM

Evolutionists and 6-Day Creationists talk over each other because they are having two different conversations. In other words, they are trying to answer two fundamentally different questions.

Evolution is trying to answer the question "how long did it take for everything we see to get here." Using an analogy, they are looking at a fully grown "man" and trying to see if they can find how long it took for him to go from fertilized egg to mature manhood. Because they see the universe expanding, they assume there was a point when it was a tiny little embryonic universe. That assumption drives everything--if it is expanding now (point B), it must have been infinitely small at one time (point A). They are trying to find out how long it took to get from point A to point B. In other words, they are trying to determine the age of the universe.

Creationists, on the other hand are trying to defend the biblical account of a 6-day creation of a mature universe. Creatinists deny there was an embryonic universe. Creationists are try to determine the age of time, if you will. Not, "how old is the universe", but "how long has the universe been in existence."

These are two fundamentally different questions which is why Evolutionists and Creationists will never come to agreement. It's like me asking "What's for lunch? Pizza!" and you asking "What's for dinner? Lasagna!" and then fighting over why I'm right and you're wrong.

Creationists need to stop trying to defend "the age of the universe" in the same terms as Evolutionists and start taking a different approach (I don't know... like evangelism... :D).

#22  Posted by Orlando Delgado  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 7:13 PM



Although your comment as simplistic as you have presented, it lacks the major issue Evolution represents. It is not a matter of two fundamental questions but one question. It is actually the same old lie - Did God really say that? This is an issue of truth of a God creator and goes all the way back to the Battle for the Truth established since the very beginning in creation and the fall of man. Man on his own will never believe, it requires the power of the Holy Spirit to open one’s eyes to see the truth. John MacArthur once said Creation is not a scientific question but a theological one. Man will never, ever be able to explain the beginning because it does not allow for empirical observation. Evolution is nothing more than an attempt to discredit Gods words. The issue of evolution does not even have merits to be addressed or entertained, yet unbelieving men have elevated Darwin as one of their prophets. This story is revealed all over the Old and New Testaments. God bless.

#23  Posted by randell danner  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 7:17 PM

A new topic; excellent! I find it absurdly ironic that scientists study God's creation to disprove God created it. Much like many sceptics try to disprove the Bible as God's Word by using God's Word. They will study it to no end and cannot see the truth in it. Why? Because they don't want to see for fear that they will have to obey.

"Science doesn't prove God exists, God proves science exists.


Sigmund Freud did the same thing when he concocted psychology (not that he was the only one but is considered the father of it, so i pick on him.) He did so because he despiced Religion and God and formed his own religion-NOT A SCIENCE. And yet the Church has bought into the lie of integration. I realize psychology could be another topic of discussion in its own right but psychology is evolutions evil twin and they work hand in hand to deny and to destroy God-or at least give it their best effort. Obviously God cannot be destroyed but how many sincere believers yet ignorant has had their faith ruined through vain philosophies infiltrating the church. Once again, may i quote, "the world is too much with us." Wordsworth. I fear this can not be quoted enough in the church today.

I have not looked into it thoroughly enough but i thought i heard some things not so great about the idea of "intelligent design." To me it has the connotation of calling God a "higher power." God is the Highest power and we know He's more than just "intelligent" and more than a "designer." Once again someone has found a way to water down God and the Faith for all to "enjoy."

#24  Posted by Randy Johnson  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 7:52 PM

It is more correct to say, "Evolution is trying to answer the question "how long did it take for everything we see to get here by natural processes only." Supernatural presuppositions do not apply, since "myths" cannot be used as evidence in scientific study. What is alarming is not the fighting over who is right or wrong, but how the scoffers are having a bigger effect on the Christians, rather than the other way around! Thus, I agree with you that a different approach is necessary.

#25  Posted by Rick White  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 9:28 PM


You're right that Creationists and Evolutionists are not going to agree on the age of the universe or for that matter anything else. However,do we Creationists not even get into the debate? The Evolutionists claim that they have evidence that the Bible is incorrect because all the evidence points to a 15 billion year old universe. Creationists must have a rebuttal for that false assertion 2 Corinthians 10:5. In other words,when my 15 year old son comes home from school and says that his science teacher told him the Bible is wrong because scientists know that the universe is 15 billion years old,what do I tell him? Of course I tell him that the science teacher is wrong and the Bible is correct,but remember the science teacher is presenting "evidence" for his side of the argument. I have to be able to explain to him why the science teacher's "evidence" is faulty. I have to be able to show him that the science teacher is "interpreting" the scientific data based on false presuppositions. It's not enough to just say that Evolutionists are wrong,we need to be able to show why they are wrong.

#26  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 9:47 PM


In future posts, we will be addressing the presuppositions everyone brings to the table when we evaluate "evidence."  Everyone has the same evidence, the issue is how that evidence is interpreted and the unquestioned biases and a priori assumptions we bring to the evaluation of the evidence.

See this article to get a better understanding of what I mean:

In the meantime, to help your son have some answers, check out those links I posted in the comments above.


#27  Posted by Gabriel Powell (GTY Admin)  |  Friday, March 26, 2010 at 11:04 PM


I see what you are saying, and I agree. For the sake of clarity we should distinguish between atheistic evolutionists (the majority?) and theistic evolutionists. I was referring more to atheistic evolutionists. Of course they don't care what God says. Between the atheistic evolutionist and the 6-day creationist there is no debate to be had. However your point certainly applies to theistic evolutionists, specifically Christian evolutionists.


Christians should definitely be involved in the sciences, but not in the sense of debating their position. You simply can't argue a 6-day creation from a scientific standpoint. You can, though, discredit evolutionary science and theories pointing out their weaknesses and failures. But that is not a specifically Christian endeavor... any scientist should do that. But that is not a debate per se because you can't go on to defend the biblical position scientifically. Orlando said this in quoting John MacArthur saying that creation is a theological issue, not a scientific issue.

#28  Posted by John Cunniff  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 3:42 AM

The same God that Created this world ordered the siences and principles that scientist study. Why do Christians make the same mistake as many secular scientist and take God out of science? The same science that gives us nuclear energy, provides a historical time record of events by carbon dating. Most christians quickly accept the science that provides that energy that lights the homes we live in, while denying that same science that is the foundation for carbon dating. The same archaeological science that we praise in middle eastern historical studies that verify biblical facts, many christians reject when evolutionary evidence is uncovered. We rely on science daily for transportation, communication, health and most things in life. Yet we villify it when it appears to conflict with our beliefs. Lets stop being hippocrites and stop giving secular academia reason for their disdain for our theology! If we look to God first and recognize Him as the scource of ALL things, then maybe we can arrive at historical truth sometime in the future. Science MUST be in harmony with God, since God created it! I refuse to be a christian ostrich and stick my head in the proverbial sand. I applaud Darwin the scientist and reject him as a theologian.

#29  Posted by Todd Brunermer  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM

"Why then do so many Christians feel the need to acquiesce to the demands of a system with such anti-God,anti-Christian beginnings?"

I believe the answer is actually very basic. The people that do this want to be Christians and still be loved or accepted by the world.

I am along these same lines as Rick. I'm currently reading John MacArthurs book "The Jesus You Can't Ignore" which early on speaks of a lot of churches not wanting to step on any toes and almost keeping with the "We just want to get along with everyone" idea without truly defending the faith.

Fred, thank you for the links. I'm not sure if anyone has seen "The Truth Project" series or how they feel about it, but it whetted my appetite to study and gain more facts about this topic to defend my faith. Thanks again...

#30  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 7:43 AM

John wrote,

Why do Christians make the same mistake as many secular scientist and take God out of science?

Christians aren't taking God out of science.  That is a mistaken notion on the part of those opposed to a biblical worldview of such disciplines.  As I noted in #26, evidence has to be interpreted.  Everyone, non-Christians and Christians, have the same evidence.  The question is by which presuppositions will one draw the proper conclusions when they interpret the evidence. 

The things you mentioned, archaeology, communications, health, medicine, are not areas of science that stand opposed to biblical creation, nor do they put forth undeniable evidence for evolution against creation so that we are forced to "re-read" Genesis to accommodate it.  The areas of science you list everyone utilizes, including non-Christians and non-Darwinianists.  It is an error to think some one has to adhere to Darwinian evolution to do cancer research, for example. 

We credit Darwin for the work he did in the areas of his field that reflects normal, operational science everyone utilizes.  There were men who were writing on these things long before Darwin published his "Origins of the Species," including a few biblical creationists.  Where Darwin goes wrong is extrapolating the errant conclusions he had about the development of  life and building an entire philosophy of origins of man that excluded God and relied solely upon naturalistic reasons.  This is not doing science, but injecting one's beliefs onto the evidence.

We will be dealing with the limitations of science in future posts.


#31  Posted by Nancy Medeiros  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 8:58 AM

There seems tobe many people who think Darwin became a Christian just before he died. There are many speculations about it. One popular one is that an evangelist named Lady Hope stated 33 yrs later to a newspaper that she was at Darwin's bedside during his last illness. She says he recanted his evolution theory and accepted Christ ( After reading more about it, it seems the stories are unsupportable.

And yet, why was Darwin buried in Westminster Abbey Church? I thought it is impossible to be buried there unless you are a Christian.

John, in your library of knowledge and investigative processes, have you found out any more information regarding this?


Nancy M.

#32  Posted by Millard Lightfoot  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 9:05 AM

Many – many years have passed since I accepted our Lord as savior of my life and allot of struggling comparing science to Christianly has come and gone since then. Back then I was in engineering school where most everything was black and white and science and religion was not discussed in the same room without some degree of quarreling. It was difficult to piece together theories between creation and evolution and many of the attempts I made were miserable failures. I eventually stopped searching for literature with enough backing for me to feel trustworthily with and continued in faith that God created everything including the science we explain everything with. It was not until just recently I read John’s book ‘The Battle for the Beginning’ that I felt someone had finally nailed down the spiritual premise for me to accept and as an aid to help explain the beginning to fellow believers as well as non-believers . The challenge was then renewed of how to also explain the scientific premise of God’s creation. My challenge was met and concluded, at least temporarily, with two recent books ‘In the Beginning’ by Walt Brown and ‘Earth's Catrostrophic Past’ by Andrew A. Snelling. I now continue to accept by faith alone that our God did call all creation together and with the aid of the writings mentioned above I can explain how He created it all in such a short time and very recently. I would also like to add as I have been taught if it is mentioned in the Bible it must be important for our creator to have mentioned it to us and the more it is mentioned – well - the more the significant of the point. Great literature are those mentioned above but I think even they have only scratched the surface. I pray for guidance from God for them as they continue to help explain His creation to us.

#33  Posted by Regis Cordeiro  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 9:21 AM

We can not scientifically prove one way or the other. We need "faith/believe" to both options. What I find fascinating is that the evolutionists tell us that we can not trust in "faith" and we are illogical. But you need more "faith" to believe in evolution than creation. To believe in creation we need "one" act of faith that the Creator created everything. In evolution they need "millions" of "faiths" to believe that from nothing, something exploded, then started circling around, and then transform in something else, you need a LOT of faith to believe all that, specially because nothing naturally today behaves like that. You can not observe today any of these assumptions.

I like the comparison where a truck was carrying several food supplies, like butter, milk, etc. In one turn, the driver lost control and the truck felt from the road and exploded, from the explosion, all ingredients mixed together and the perfect cake was made. That's theory of evolution, but without the truck or ingredients. How can that work? In theory of evolution, something comes from nothing. I tell you you need A LOT more faith to believe that then "somebody" made the cake.

To me creation is more logical, just observing what happens today and based on scientifically accepted facts, then evolution. So why evolutionists, considered the "smart" people believe in that? Because they can't accept that God exists. I don't understand why people consider them "intelligent", to me they are delusional, making their own reality. The question is why "real" christians fall into this category. Maybe they are not real christians, but this was discussed in a blog before and I think is an important question to ask.

One interesting fact that we overlook is written in the name: Theory of Evolution. It is a theory, not a law like the Laws of Physics like gravitation. We shouldn't put them in the same place and I think evolutionists do.

I could stay here the whole day listing those facts where evolution doesn't make sense, but once again I don't think is a matter of fact, but spiritual war. My concern is not with the evolutionists, since they are "dead" in their sins and can not see until God decides too. My concern is with "Christians" who don't believe in God's Word.

God bless,


#34  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 9:30 AM

Regis wrote,

I like the comparison where a truck was carrying several food supplies, like butter, milk, etc. In one turn, the driver lost control and the truck felt from the road and exploded, from the explosion, all ingredients mixed together and the perfect cake was made. That's theory of evolution, but without the truck or ingredients. How can that work? In theory of evolution, something comes from nothing. I tell you you need A LOT more faith to believe that then "somebody" made the cake.

In fairness to the Darwinians, because as Christians we wish to represent our opponents correctly, the standard response to this and other similar illustrations is that biology is life, where as cake ingredients (and watch pieces to take Paley's illustration) are inanimate objects.  Your point is still taken, however.  A more precise challenge to the materialistic naturalist is to press him as to how animate, living biological creatures arose from inanimate, non-life. 


#35  Posted by Nancy Medeiros  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 9:34 AM

Why was Darwin buried in Westminster Abbey church if he were not a Christian? Unbeliever's can't be buried there, right?

#36  Posted by Todd Domer  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 10:14 AM

Some people who claim to be Christians want to make God into their image, that is why they would join with perpetrators of a lie such as evolution. I was looking through a Bible study book the other day and one of the things that it said after reading through the selected scripture passage was:" What does this scripture say to me?". I think that this is one of the problems. When you read scripture and then try to see what it means to me instead of "What is God saying here that I need to learn?", we are diluding the scriptures into waht we want them to say instead of truly getting the proper meaning from them. Also when these people create their own god they can do whatever they want instead of doing what the true God wants for them to do. I saw a post in the earlier creation blog that someone said "What does it matter what I believe about the beginning or the end?". It means a lot, it means that we submit ourselves to God and the truth of his word. Look at our government and the government schools today, they pushed God out in the 60's and we as a nation have been paying the price ever since. If we push God out, then we can do what ever we want withourt a fear of eternal punishment. Romans chapter 1 shows what happens when a people push God out, I fear we see a lot of people today who have been turned over to a reprobate mind to do whatever they see fit to do.

Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. NASB

Sorry for the long post, I hope I wasn't too verbose.

#37  Posted by Regis Cordeiro  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 10:41 AM

Reading my own post, I found the term delusional too strong for what I was trying to say. So please allow me to say it how I wanted:

They are "blinded" by their own spiritual state.

Isaiah 43:8, Zephaniah 1:17, Matt 15:14, Matthew 23:17, 2 Corinthians 4:4

God bless,


#38  Posted by Shauna Bryant  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 11:22 AM

*Shauna Bryant*

"Why then do so many Christians feel the need to acquiesce to the demands of a system with such anti-God, anti-Christian beginnings?"

If you do not understand that God is the Creator of the universe and how sin entered the world (and caused death) and that there was no death until man sinned....are you even a Christian? If you don't understand Him as the Creator how can you believe He is the Redeemer? This is even mentioned in JM's sermon in Beginnings. The topic of God and His creation is brought up time and again in the New Testament. There were those who claimed to know God and so His Son was explained to them and then there were those who knew of Jesus and He was explained to them as God with us and there were those who knew of neither and BOTH (as One) were explained to them. The fact of His creation and He being the Creator is mentioned time and again in the New Testament (using of course the old). It seems this issue was of paramount importance, for as mentioned by many - you have to know these things in order to believe (of course the Father must draw you).

I cannot pick a man out of a crowd and say "Look! There is Sam, he will save you - believe on him". We too often have this kind of attiitude today in explaining Jesus Christ. That would be an example of the easy believism Gospel which is no where found in Gods Word. You will of course NEED to know who exactly is this Sam? What has Sam done? Why do I need Sam to save me? Can another save me? What's so special about Sam that I should believe in him as the only one? What is Sams power to do what you say?

These issues are explained in Gods Word for a reason - so that we can know. I do not see how you can pick out a few verses and say "now you have what you need in order to believe". Look at everything written in the New Testament. Do we realize, that regarding a majority (I'd say at least 90%) of churches in the world that you'd have to attend your entire life and not get to half the information found in Romans alone? I heard a sermon by JM once where he was saying that Paul had spent three sabbaths with one of the churches and look at everything they had been taught! Paul even says over and over again "God..who created all things". God as the Creator - Jesus as the Creator - this is paramount in explaining just who our God is, it cannot be left out. Anyone who believes in evolution (even by using the compromise position that God used evolution), though you call yourself a Christian, should certainly do what we are admonished to do and examine yourselves to see if you are in the faith. Because that 'compromise' completely negates the reason for sin and therefore our need for a Redeemer.

God Bless, Shauna

#39  Posted by Shauna Bryant  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 11:28 AM

*Shauna Bryant*

Correction: I meant to say "that compromise completely negates the reason for death (sin) and our need for the Redeemer, Jesus Christ, Creator of all things."

#40  Posted by Elaine Bittencourt  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 1:28 PM

# 35 - Nancy.

I did some googling. Here's some of the info I found, if you google your question you can read more about it:

One resource says:

" When he died on April 19, 1882, his family planned to bury him in the local churchyard beside the graves of his children. Some of Darwin's countrymen, however, had other ideas and quickly began lobbying leading scientists and members of government to come together and ask the dean of Britain's Westminster Abbey to allow Darwin to be buried there. The dean, Reverend George Granville Bradley, responded that his "assent would be cheerfully given", and so Darwin, the agnostic, was buried in Westminster Abbey on the afternoon of April 26. Darwin's old friend, botanist Joseph Hooker, was among the pallbearers, as were Alfred Russel Wallace, the young naturalist whose writings had pushed Darwin into publishing his own theory, and James Russell Lowell, the United States' ambassador to Britain. In a part of the Abbey known as Scientists' Corner, Darwin lies a few feet from the burial place of Sir Isaac Newton and next to that of the astronomer Sir John Herschel. It was Herschel that Darwin referred to in the introduction of The Origin of Species as the great philosopher who coined the phrase "mystery of mysteries" to describe the change of Earth's species through time."

Another one:

"It is a peculiar case of "doublethink" that the Church of England is fully capable of. Burial in Westminster Abbey is reserved for those who have made a profound contribution to British culture or science. Darwin was never openly atheist, perhaps as not to offend his wife (who was devoutly religious) but his letters show us now that he was fully atheist. The C of E would have had no problem giving him the honour, as his discovery of natural selection was truly ground breaking. The C of E was probably thinking that Darwin had perhaps discovered god's "method". ----- So, as you can see, it's not reserved for Christians only. God bless, E.
#41  Posted by Rick White  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 3:11 PM


Thanks for the clarification. I think I was misinterpreting your last statement in post #19 "Creationists need to stop trying to defend "the age of the universe" in the same terms as Evolutionists and start taking a different approach (I don't know... like evangelism... :D)."

I took that to mean that you didn't think we needed to respond to the Evolutionists' false assertions,but just evangelize.


Thanks for posting the great article from AIG. That article actually articulates what I was trying to say in my post #25. Also the two articles you posted from The Masters Seminary Journal were also excellent and well worth the read.

#42  Posted by Randy Johnson  |  Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 7:21 PM

Instead of trying to reconcile Genesis 1-11 with the scientific community I believe we should solemnly warn them that they are sacrificing their future. The point is whether or not members of a nation decide to follow God's plans or their own plans. Contrary to the founding fathers, many in this nation are choosing to follow their own plans. God is like the potter sitting at his wheel forming the clay (Jeremiah 18). When the clay does not respond properly to his hands, he changes his plans and makes it into another vessel. Though you think you are following your own plans, you are really following God's "changed" plan. The thought of God's changed plan should alarm us. Elitists and secular humanists are not really shaping the nation. Do you really think Judah's elite were planning to die by famine, pestilence, and the sword, or go into captivity? The majority did not believe the warnings, but it happened nonetheless. It still happens when a nation wants to get rid of God.

#43  Posted by Tony Koonce  |  Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 12:31 PM

To John Macarthur ,

In the full sermon to this blog you state that sin did not enter the earth until Adam sinned. I disagree. The reason why is because Satan sinned when he came against God and was cast out of Heaven. What do you think about this matter? Please comment back.


#44  Posted by Gabriel Powell (GTY Admin)  |  Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 3:37 PM


Due to his vast responsibilities John MacArthur is not able to frequent these blogs, nor does he use a computer for that matter.

Regarding your idea, your concept is not a disagreement with John (and the entire evangelical world's) position on when sin entered the world. The reason is because you're talking about two different things. What you are saying is that Satan, the father of sin, existed and fell before the fall of man, and many would say before creation itself. So from a spiritual perspective, sin did exist before man fell into sin.

When John MacArthur talked about sin entering the world, he was talking about it in terms of what Paul said in Romans 5:12, namely, that sin entered the world through one man--Adam. Paul is not saying that sin did not exist before Adam, but that man was not sinful, nor did sin impact the physical world, until the fall of man. When Adam and Eve sinned, then and only then did sin have a real physical and spiritual impact on the nature of man and the nature of the physical world. It was on the basis of man's sin, not Satan's, that God cursed the ground and brought death into the world.

To sum up, what you said is simply a different issue than what John was saying. Yes, Satan was the first one to sin, but it was man's sin that brought "sin into the world" in terms of impact and consequences.

Hope that helps!

#45  Posted by Richard Carter  |  Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 6:30 PM

Regarding Post #25

Rick White,

I was talking with a person about young earth, evolution, and my faith, and was asked how you explain that scientists can date rocks or whatever and definitively tell us how old they are. So, I asked, "Do you believe God could create a 100-foot oak tree by speaking it into existence?" Now, this person went to church, and agreed God would be able to do that. So, then I asked, "Okay, if you cut that tree down immediately and counted the rings, how old would that tree appear to be?" The understanding was immediate. People who want to believe in evolution, WANT to believe in it. For me, this simple explanation says it all. Even the stars that are "billions of light years away." Since God hung them all in space, the distance presents a challenge to folks. Believe in your own wisdom, or believe God. If there is wanton disbelief, only the gospel and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can change that.

And, I also like the quote that God's people aren't offended by God's Word. Challenged often, but never offended. Those who are need to "consider their ways." I don't recall anyone ever having to convince me that evolution was nonsense.

#46  Posted by Rick White  |  Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 11:05 PM


Thanks for your insights and I agree with almost everything you say. However I think we are both looking at this from the perspective of a "mature" Christian. I had an experience one time when I was having dinner in a restaurant with several co-workers and the conversation turned to the debate between Creationism vs Evolution. The subject was actually brought up by an admitted atheist. He started mocking the Bible and started talking about how the Bible had been disproved by science. Immediately all eyes looked to me to see what my response was going to be. I guess I could have just shrugged it off and just said I believed the Bible and not these scientists but I don't think that would have been the biblical response 1 Peter 3:15. I had previously had several conversations with a few of the people there about my faith and confidence in the Bible. So,instead of just shrugging off the comments of this atheist,I got into a discussion on why the Bible is so reliable. How it has been verified time and time again historically,scientifically,and morally. I also was able to discuss the many "philosophical" assumptions that these scientists make in interpreting the scientific data. I sincerely believe that because I gave more than a simplistic response I was able to have further discussions with some of these co-workers on spiritual matters. A simple "the Bible tells me so" works fine when discussing things with mature Bible believing Christians,but many new Christians and many that the Holy Spirit is preparing for the gospel have real and valid questions that we need to be able to answer. I know I sure did. Fortunately for me I came into contact with Christians that were either able to answer my questions or were able to direct me to where I could find the answers.

#47  Posted by Mark A Smith  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 8:14 AM

One thing we have to be careful of is getting "too cocky" in our beliefs. The problem with saying "the Bible says it and that's good enough for me" is that MAYBE you read the Bible wrong!!! It is worthwhile to stick your head up and check to see whether what you THINK you read is what was intended. One way to do that in the creation context is to apply scientific principles that work "on Earth" so to speak to what we see out in is a worthwhile endeavor.

#48  Posted by Mark A Smith  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 10:07 AM

Good examples of what I am talking about are people thinking that the Bible taught the heavens were perfect, so everything there was perfect. Orbits were circles, not ellipses, surfaces were smooth and not cratered, etc...Also, people thought the Earth was the center of the universe. This is CERTAINLY NOT the case in the solar system, the Sun is the center. The Sun is NO WHERE NEAR the center of our galaxy, etc...

#49  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Good examples of what I am talking about are people thinking that the Bible taught the heavens were perfect, so everything there was perfect. Orbits were circles, not ellipses, surfaces were smooth and not cratered, etc...Also, people thought the Earth was the center of the universe. This is CERTAINLY NOT the case in the solar system, the Sun is the center. The Sun is NO WHERE NEAR the center of our galaxy, etc...

Those were more man-made interpretations brought upon the scripture, particularly Aristotelian philosophy applied to understanding the cosmos.  This was Galileo's run in with the cosmologists of his day.  Their presuppositions implied the perfect heavens, etc.   The Bible no where teaches such things or even implies this is how we are to understand the cosmos. There was a recent blog post that explored errant views of what the Bible says regarding the cosmos:


#50  Posted by Mark A Smith  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 10:55 AM

Exactly Fred, maybe there is some human philosophy lurking in your world views??? How did we overcome this problem in Galileo's time??? Looking up. Just a thought.

#51  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 11:24 AM

All men have philosophies lurking in their worldviews.  I strive to make mine always biblical. 

As for how this was overcome in Galileo's time.  It was more driven by the high view of scripture introduced by the Reformation rather than "just looking up." Author, Peter Harrison, explores the decline of Roman Catholic allegoristic hermeneutics and the rise of Reformed exegesis and its influence upon the natural sciences in his book, The Bible, Protestantism, and the Rise of Natural Science.


#52  Posted by Mark A Smith  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 11:35 AM

Fred, you are missing the point. Sometimes you have to look with your eyes to confirm your understanding. Saying God created the Moon is good, and valid. But you have to study the physics of the natural world if you want to build a rocket to get there...

#53  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 11:43 AM

Sometimes you have to look with your eyes to confirm your understanding. Saying God created the Moon is good, and valid. But you have to study the physics of the natural world if you want to build a rocket to get there...

I would agree with you, Mark, but a lack of studying the physics of the natural world was not what caused the clash between Galileo and the pope.  It had to do with competing worldviews that interpreted the physics.  It is the same clash biblical creationists have with secular materialists.

#54  Posted by Mark A Smith  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 11:45 AM

What I am trying to say is this. The Bible is not a science textbook. While it is consistent with science, it does not precisely describe all the natural functions of the world. That has to be done by observing the world that God created. Let's just keep that in mind as we critique the efforts of scientists...

#55  Posted by Rick White  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 4:41 PM


I don't think anyone here is critiquing the EFFORTS of scientists. What we are critiquing is the naturalistic unbiblical conclusions they come to. As Fred pointed out,what causes the problem is bringing in their "philosophical" worldview to reach their conclusions. So much of "science" starts with the assumption that there was no supernatural creation. Everything can be explained by slow natural processes. It should not be forbidden to present another hypothesis to explain what we observe. What is so frustrating to me is that any other hypothesis is forbidden in order to establish their philosophical atheistic worldview.

#56  Posted by randell danner  |  Monday, March 29, 2010 at 7:34 PM

I am sitting here trying to fathom the "big bang theory" and it is boggling my mind. If "nothing" explodes and material substance appears where did the "nothing" come from??? How can nothing by itself become "something?" There had to be some other substance even as small as an atom or an atom itself to explode. so where did that atom come from??? it is an absurdity as much as trying to get a person who believes everything is relativistic that he is absolutely sure its all relative. If relativism is the truth wouldn't that make it an absolute??

#57  Posted by Richard Carter  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 3:30 AM

I have to admit I am having some trouble with something, and would love to have some help. First, in response to Rick in post #46, I wonder if 1 Peter 3:15 should be applied the way you are applying it. In another comment in an earlier post is was said after struggling with how to "convince" people that God's Word is true, "Maybe we all should have a view from outer space to better grasp God's creation, but I think even that would not be enough to win over those who think they are in the know." Now do we really believe God's Word needs us to defend its veracity? Is it that rickety and ineffectual that unless we can "prove" it is true people will believe it? I know you all don't believe that. It's clear to me you love the Lord. But, the reason for the hope that lies within us in 1 Peter 3:15 is the gospel! The hope is not in us explaining this perfectly and countering every argument with a response that refutes every challenge with exact precision. Heaven help us if it does. The situation in which these questions are being asked is an opportunity to share Christ! His work on the cross! To engage in stupid challenges to God's creation which His Word describes as declaring His handiwork, is not profitable. I believe Proverbs 26:4 speaks to this.

When I was talking with the person about the 100-foot oak tree, this was definitely not a mature Christian. She was a Catholic, and I wasn't sure she was saved. So, I pointed her in the direction of faith. I think we must be careful not to engage in a discussion of reasoning with people who are "mocking the Bible." Unless they hear, they won't believe. And, they won't hear unless we preach. And, when we preach, God's Word is powerful and active, sharper than a two-edged sword, dividing the soul. He does the work. It's a heart issue, not a brain one. Preach the gospel! The creation/evolution battle cannot be won until the heart is changed.

#58  Posted by Todd Domer  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 6:17 AM

Richard Carter

You are correct. We are to teach the truth with love and the Holy Spirit will opens the heart of the hearer to understand if they are one of His sheep that hear His voice. When we argue we try to force someone to understand something that they may never understand.

1Co 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 1Co 3:7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 1Co 3:8 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor.

Only God can change a heart. With an unsaved person we need to share the truth of the gospel, nothing else will make sense to them until God opens their heart with His saving grace.

#59  Posted by Millard Lightfoot  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 8:13 AM

Although I have not read all the post on this subject I think most of our replies have not addressed the question. I know mine did not and therefore I restate the question here hopefully to provide a more adequate response:

“Why would we (Christians) want to join forces with those whose effort is directly against the authority of the God of Scripture?”

My opinion is that we (many Christians) do not fully accept God’s creation by faith maybe because we look for something concrete to wrap our minds around and that is a very difficult challenge to say the least. Most if not all of the great minds that ever existed have never been able to fully explain God and His creation. When someone like Darwin comes along with a notion that the mountains rouse from oceans a few feet at each earth quake episode over millions of years and that’s how sea shells got so high up on the mountains then we quickly draw the conclusion that’s concrete enough. Well it isn’t and we should not accept claims as this without an in-depth investigation of our own – like “don’t take my word for it study it for yourself.”

We are working with a young person in our area that is a devout atheist who only reads anti-God anti-Christian literature. That person has now agreed that the other side does need to be considered as well and is pursuing that challenge. What is interesting is the dad, an exiled Russian Catholic, died apparently converted to atheism and this particular young person is now hoping to give the mom the opportunity of receiving our Lord as her savior if there is fact a God. Please pray for these and those in witness to them.

Having several conversations with this person it’s easy to see how the wrong path is chosen. I know factually that falsehood is easier to accept than the truth because most young people are never presented with the truth during their educational years. Take a young mind and never mention God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit around them in school, and play, and they will grow up never knowing who They are and that everything just happened accidentally somehow, somewhere at sometime so why should they care.

Another young person we continue witness too has grown up thinking Christmas and Easter are just part of children’s fairy tales. Owing a thriving business in the area has brought success to a mind deprived of the truth and its easy very easy to live happy by accept that which is false. Please pray for this person as well.

Answering the question above is difficult since there are various paths that are somewhat being chose for us without our knowledge, however, after accepting our Lords invitation we should learn to discern weeding out the incorrect paths to find the truth setting us free and we need to convey our Lords message to others.

God Bless,

#61  Posted by Bryce Gaudian  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 10:24 AM

Greetings from south-central Minnesota where we witness the wonder of God's amazing creation daily! Actually, 4 seasons worth. Right now, the miracle of the return of the spring robins, just like clockwork ... I've been involved in "creation ministry" for over a decade now -- believing that it is a foundational doctrine of our Christian faith which must be contended for. It is my firm and unwavering belief that God created just like His Word states - in six literal 24-hour days a little more than 6,000 years ago. To believe anything other is to not be true to Scripture and God's Word ... where it is absolutely clear that He created everything out of nothing "Ex nihilo" and instantaneously "He spoke and it was..." -- there is no need for billions or millions of years ... but so many think they need to by syncretistic with evolutionists and combine their core tenet of long ages with the Bible and come up with some hybrid explanation for how we got here. This is ludicrous. Why would anyone want to be syncretistic with atheistic evolution? We hosted Dr. Duane Gish here back in the mid 1990's and I loved his famous quote, "Isn't it unbelievable what an unbeliever has to believe in order to be an unbeliever?! It's simply unbelievable!" Evolution is an absolute affront to our Creator, and it behooves the body of Christ to contend for the truth of the Biblical account of creation to end this affront and rather, bring acclaim to our awesome Creator. To do less would be to dishonor Him. Just think if the child of Michaelangelo didn't contend for the fact that his father painted everything on the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel and that it wasn't a result of water dripping thru the roof and staining the ceiling with all that amazing artwork. Well, the evolutionists are calling every marvel in our world an accident -- by chance evolution - and not at the hand of a Creator. We need to contend for the glory and acclaim of our Creator by acknowledging His amazing work and His love in holding all things together by the power of His Word. My thoughts this afternoon from southern Minnesota. Bryce Gaudian, President, Southern Minnesota Association for Creation, Inc. To God be the glory.

#62  Posted by Lois Dimitre  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 11:20 AM

“Why would we want to join forces with those whose effort is directly against the authority of the God of Scripture?...Why then do so many Christians feel the need to acquiesce to the demands of a system with such anti-God, anti-Christian beginnings?

~I believe a wavering faith in trusting God's Word to be 100% true and accurate causes Christians to compromise and 'join forces'.

--Psalm 119:60 says: "The word [is] true [from] the beginning: and everyone one of thy righteous judgements [endureth] forever."

God's Word is true, accurate - trustworthy - from Genesis to Revelation. And the more we study Scripture, the more it is revealed to us that all Scripture bears testimony to Christ; Old and New Testament alike. We know that 'faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God' and that we are to live by faith and 'walk by faith and not by sight'. Studying His word strengthens our faith and by His strength we can resist the compromise of which we speak.

I'm reminded of Jesus' words in John 5 (particularly vv 46,47). Speaking to the Jewish leaders who condemned Him for healing a man on the Sabbath, He responded and asked of them:

--46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

If I'm understanding these verses correctly, Jesus was saying to those leaders that if they really believed what Moses had written, then they wouldn't reject Him. However, because they rejected the Father's words written through Moses about Him, they were therefore rejecting Him. Though Jesus may not have been specifically refering to the Genesis 1 account in these particular verses of John 5, I believe the concept is the same. Jesus references the 'Old Testament' several times (for example in Mat 19:4,5 and Mat 24:37-39). He speaks of actual historical events recorded in OT Scripture and does not give an allegorical interpretation. Should we as Christians be any less accepting of His word as true and historical? To do so is to pave the road to compromise.

In 1995 AIG's Ken Ham wrote an excellent article titled *'A child may see the folly'. It examines the detriment of compromise and uses examples of Thomas Huxley's writings to illustrate this issue. Many of you will remember Huxley as being an humanist, evolutionist contemporary and avowed defender of Darwin. In fact, it was this zeal which earned him the title of "Darwin's Bulldog'.

Ham's article reviews Huxley's essay **"The Light of the Church and the Light of Science" (1890) in which he (Huxley) commenting on Mat 19:4-5 opines:

"If divine authority is not here claimed for the twenty-fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis, what is the value of language? And again, I ask, if one can play fast and loose with the story of the Fall as "type" or "allegory", what becomes of the foundation of Pauline theology?"

How ironic that this vehement Christ-denier was so spot on in his commentary regarding Biblical compromise!! Why is it that so many Christians to this day are so blind to its affects?

God's Word is 100% accurate and true. In Him there is no standard deviation or acceptable margin of error. God cannot lie, but man can and will. Certainly the latter is true, but do we really believe the former? That's the core question each Christian must first ask themselves when it comes to the issues of origins and molecules-to-man evolution.

*Ken Ham's, 'A child may see the folly' -

**Thomas Huxley's 'The Lights of the Church and the Light of Science' -

#63  Posted by Randy Johnson  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 12:06 PM

I do not have a problem with answering questions that are related to the defense of the hope that is within us. "All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable..." The Puritans "educated" people into the kingdom of God for years. Unfortunately, many of the institutions that arose from that effort are now predominantly secular.

The assault is continuing. It may boil down to whether or not a law can be passed to make it mandatory for all students to take prescribed science courses that teach only evolution. Once you get the whole family involved in getting rid of the true God, you have some of the criteria that God used in the past to judge a nation (Jeremiah 7:16-20). Who do you know tries to provoke a nation and its leaders to do things that incur God's judgment (1 Chron 21)?

Joining forces with those whose effort is directly against the authority of God is kryptonite. We end up losing power and influence (see Puritans above). However, God will raise up His champions at the proper time. We do not recognize them yet because they are probably not on the front lines. They could be ordinary Christians, plodding along faithfully. They could be back home "tending the sheep". But, when the Lord brings them up to the front lines...

#64  Posted by Rick White  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM


You are correct that it is God alone that regenerates the heart. But I have to ask you, what is it that he uses to do that? The answer is scripture 2 Timothy 3:15. So, it is the hope or confidence in God's word that renews my mind Romans 12:2. Because the Bible is the means God uses in bringing us to Christ,I will defend it with everything I have from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. As I evangelize my kids,friends,and neighbors,I want them to also understand that they can have every confidence in the whole Bible. So many of the foundational doctrines of Christianity are found in the book of Genesis. If they don't believe that Genesis is true,how are they going to believe the rest of the Bible? And what means do I use to evangelize them?

#65  Posted by Rick White  |  Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 8:59 PM


Are you saying that when you are evangelizing someone and they have a question about "origins" and the debate between Evolution and the Bible's version of Creation,you don't answer their questions? Do you just quote John 3:16 to them and leave it at that? Maybe I'm different from most,but in the course of evangelizing people "origins" and the validity of the Bible comes up quite frequently. And I'm not the one that brings it up. Anyone that knows me very well already knows where I stand on the validity of the Bible. You also use 1 Corinthians 3:6-8 to make the point that it is God that gives the increase. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But I don't see how that says that we shouldn't defend the Bible. After all it is scripture that God uses to bring people to Christ 2 Timothy 3:15. I realize that we can't argue from a purely scientific point of view because the debate is not with the evidence or the data since both sides use the same evidence and data. But we should still be able to defend the Biblical position. And I believe 1 Peter 3:15 does require that we do that. I also believe that is what Paul is saying to do in 2 Corinthians 10:5.

#66  Posted by Todd Domer  |  Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 7:11 AM


I don't see where in my posts you could read into them that I said just quote John 3:16. I guess you were just being sarcastic, is that how we are to act when defending God's word. I see no point in arguing with someone, if there is a non-believer and a believer arguing - after a while it is impossible to tell which one is the non-believer. We are to speak the truth in love.

#67  Posted by Todd Domer  |  Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 1:43 PM

To ammend my earlier post, I would not dare to say that God could not bring someone to a saving knowledge of Him through John 3:16. It does contain the Gospel all in that verse. Salvation is a total work of God and the Holy Spirit convicts and enlightens. There is nothing to be gained by getting in an argument with an unbeliever. We give the gospel, answer questions, and let God bring the increase. People can see there is a God and see what He has done just through what he has created - His natural revelation. Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Also, while we are defending our faith we must always remember that it must be done in love - I Corinthians 13:1-8

#68  Posted by Rick White  |  Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 4:08 PM


Obviously you haven't understood my previous posts. I nowhere suggested that we argue with anyone to get them to believe. I spoke only of discussing the issue to defend the veracity of scripture. My point in the reference to John 3:16 was do we limit our discussion with those we are evangelizing to just certain parts or verses of the Bible or do we use the whole Bible? I propose that we use the entire Bible and then answer any questions someone has pertaining to the Bible or what we believe. My response was not sarcastic but rather a logical refutation to your false assertion that I was trying to argue or force someone into becoming a believer. I made no such comment. My previous posts were about a discussion on "origins" not only for the benefit of the atheist but for the others there listening to the discussion. I apologize if my response sounded sarcastic or unloving. I read scriptures like Jude 3 and feel that I'm to do just that. As I mentioned earlier many of the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith are found in Genesis so that is part of the "faith" we are to "contend earnestly" for.