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Lovers of Money

Tuesday, January 19, 2010 | Comments (32)

First, listen to this 6-minute clip:

Launch Player  |  Download  |  Full Sermon

Here's the topic for today's discussion:

Paul commands Timothy to avoid those who are lovers of money (cf. 2 Timothy 3:1-9). And yet the prosperity preachers are not only tolerated within evangelicalism, they are given a platform and sometimes even commended. The leaders of this movement are slaves of mammon, not Christ. So, how do you explain evangelicalism’s reluctance to shun Prosperity/Word of Faith teachers?


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#1  Posted by Kevin Greene  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 11:01 AM

"Greed Is Good" has been the cry since the 1980's; should we be surprised that it has infiltrated mainstream christianity ? We have been warned, in God's word of this. These are the end times, make ready for Christ to return!

#2  Posted by Elaine Bittencourt  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 11:10 AM

totally off-topic, I am sorry, but I wish it was noted the sermon of which this excerpt was taken.

thanks!

#3  Posted by Bryan Chasteen  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 1:58 PM

When you preach the truth to someone who doesn't want to listen to you for whatever reason, "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still", he will 1. not listen to what you say and 2. just spit out all the scriptures he has memorized to support what he believes. It is almost like, "hey, I am not a dummy for believing as I do. You don't realize who you're talking to!".

#4  Posted by Jeffery Guill  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 2:24 PM

Just one simple verse sums up those that openly endorse (and those that endorse by their quitness on the subject) -

Proverbs 17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

#5  Posted by Michael Bogart  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 3:21 PM

#2 Elaine-

I believe it is an excerpt from 90-64 "Does God Promise Health and Wealth Part 2." Both Part 1 (90-63) & Part 2 are excellent teachings on this topic. Hope that helps.

Thank you so much John for your teaching. May the Lord continue to bless you and your Ministry. You and your Ministry is certainly a blessing to me and countless others too. Praise Jesus!

#6  Posted by Manuel Calderon  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 4:06 PM

I was listening to this audio with a friend that is into the word-faith movement. I turned it off because I did not want to offend him. We ve gone back and forth on this subject so many times. He believes GOD wants us rich because how else are we supposed to help people. It is the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the saving message of JESUS CHRIST that produces believers. If you believe in a God that wants you rich, is that the GOD of the Bible? He also told me that I think too much. Think too much? Shouldnt my mind help me in deciding what is truth and what is not? Shouldnt my study of the scriptures help me see what is from GOD and what is not? Sometimes I think some people dont think enough. "This is what ive been taught all my life" I hope and pray that the person that told me that will see that GOD isnt at our servant but we are HIS.

#7  Posted by Gabriel Powell  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 4:36 PM

Manuel,

Have you been able to share 2 Corinthians 8:1-5 with your friend? This is a supreme example of a group of exemlary believers who were extremely poor, and yet were able to be generous in giving to other believers.

You are correct about the need to use your mind. Unfortunately your friend's attitude is typical of WOF believers who have bought into false teaching because they do not know their Bible, and are unable to discern truth from error.

I pray that the Lord will open your friend's heart to the truth and that you will be have opportunity to speak clearly and boldly in love.

#8  Posted by Angela Destro  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 6:06 PM

The Bible says that in the last days people will become lovers of themselves. I think that is part of the reason why this distasteful and sinful false teaching is allowed to stand. Taking a position opposing it might reduce someone's popularity, a hit to their pride, so they simply accept the false teaching and ignore the warnings our Lord has given us. Furthermore, if we have "all the money we need" and are financially rich, we can solve almost any situation we are in (trust me I know many who have and who brag about it - even "solving" matters of the heart with money). If that were the truth for Christians, then why would we need to depend on God any more once he's given us the money? The simple answer is, we wouldn't, but since He wants us as slaves and servants to him in this time, we must depend on Him and Him alone. Therefore all such teaching must be false and those who listen are in grave danger.

#9  Posted by Kelley Basatneh  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 8:04 PM

Evangelical Christians don't seem to know enough Bible to discern errant teachings. Others feel they should not "judge" others. They don't know that they should be discerning or that they should know them by their fruit. They seem to believe in positive thinking and that Christians should be positive, so they don't see the difference. They themselves want to be successful and think "doesn't God want me to be happy? Aren't I supposed to live an abundant life?" So many have had difficult lives and have not coped well and have listened to psychology. They want to hear something to soothe their souls momentarily.

I am heart broken over friends who have been studying Bible with me for years, yet tune in to hear Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, and Robert Schuller.

#10  Posted by Travis Allen  |  Tuesday, January 19, 2010at 9:05 PM

Angela and Kelley:

Great comments! Thanks for posting!

#11  Posted by Mike Sexton  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 6:21 AM

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#12  Posted by Mike Sexton  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 6:27 AM

First off, Manuel I've got a lot of friends and some family who ascribe to this and other commonly accepted heretical doctrines. It is really difficult sometimes to know when to speak and when to remain silent. We want to have unity, but we want to speak the truth boldly too. It's great that you are careful and loving. I pray for us both that we can and will speak when the Spirit gives us an opportunity, and in a way that both edifies and builds up our fellow believers.

This is such an awesome blog series because the topic is so incredibly relevant to the modern context. I praise God that Bro. MacArthur is coming against this heresy. I think more of us are reluctant to speak against it because we either lack the knowledge to do so effectively, or we are trying to walk together in love and are afraid of stepping on toes. We should pray for wisdom, which includes both Godly knowledge and the correct way to share it lovingly but firmly. The desire for comfort is an extension of the pride of Lucifer. It is another expression of sin, which is the absence of holiness in man. We desire to consume because of the lust of the flesh. We feel entitled to our desires and in seeking all of this, we attempt to pull God from the throne and dishonor those among us who are poor. I love the book of James because it is full of so much practical wisdom, but it deals so much with the poor, the rich and God's will that it surprises me that it isn't used more when debating this prosperity gospel nonsense.

James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? 6But you have dishonored the poor man.

James 4:15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that." 16As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

James 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. 4Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6You have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.

#13  Posted by Elaine Bittencourt  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 7:04 AM

# 5 Michael,

thank you very much for the information!

God bless,

E.

#14  Posted by Wayne Credle, Sr  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 8:11 AM

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#15  Posted by Wayne Credle, Sr  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 8:34 AM

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#16  Posted by Wayne Credle, Sr  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 8:40 AM

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Greetings and Blessings!,

When Martin Luther tacked the paper to the doors of the church in 1531 on Hallowed Eve's night (a real trick and treat!), he was confirming Paul's revelation from Jesus' teaching the 'the just shall live by faith' meaning faith in GOD/Elohim, not in mammon/money.

Ask the members of the "Bless ME!" ministry to explain the widow's mite Jesus recognized in scripture; they can't! Which of us will give all we have? Certainly not the "Bless ME!" crowd, which is precisely their main argument for being prosperous.

The Doctrines of demons better known as 'tricky theology' is at best a thinly veiled attempt to circumvent the commands in scripture.

You can’t mix Grace and Works, though many prominent Pharisee's of today blatantly try to.

This nation, built on exploitation, robbery, deceit and others too many to name forces us to take the position of John the Baptist - that of a voice or voices crying the wilderness saying "REPENT!!!" because we are superbly susceptible to this false prophecy because of the wealth acquired and available.

Can the Bless Me folks function say “Bless Me” with the same conviction in a poor nation such as in Haiti?

The prosperity/breakthrough/next level/abundance/BLESS ME ministry is one of deception, of beguilement, much like Eve was in the Garden. If our GOD created and allowed us to be good stewards of His property, how do we "getting paid" glorify Him?

How does Bless Me and Me alone counter/compliment/compromise Romans 10:9-10, Justification, Sanctification, Glorification? Did Abraham wake up Justified or prosperous? Which, then is most desirous? Abraham couldn’t bribe God to be justified could he?

He took our falleness and gave us Jesus righteousness. What price can the Bless Me crowd put on that? What can Wall Street do with that? Hmmmm...

Finally, in Genesis, before the flood, man did whatever cam to his imagination, and what an imagination he had, not only then, but even more now. BLESS ME is their current Mantra, not Save Me, Deliver Me, Remember Me as the even thief on the cross asked of Jesus...

Paul suffered a woman not to preach. Nowhere is a false prophet to preach unchallenged. Where is the discernment? Most of the New Testament screams about the false prophets. Jesus describes them as ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing". "Many will come in my name..."

Romans and Ephesians as well as Timothy and Titus describe how a pastor-teacher is to perform. Many already self or group ordained can't even get the application, or shouldn't have.

John Macarthur fills the obligations as do many others not well know nor televised or broadcast. Grace to You even opened the vault allowing infinite downloads to enable us to receive sound doctrine. Count if you can any others following suit. Yeah, I thought so....

Our position is like Jesus did to allow the holy Spirit to speak through us as Jesus did in rebuking the modern day Pharisees and to remember my favorite verse from Jude 3-"contend fro the FAITH once delivered to the SAINTS." Also I put you in remembrance Proverbs 26:4, 5, two of the strangest yet definitive verses I've ever read.

Faith & Prayers Always, Wayne

#17  Posted by David Dabbs  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 10:05 AM

The first time I heard these messages, I thought how could anything other than Christ crusified be preached in poor countries; this message will not work where the Gospel is really needed. I know very little about doctrine, but thanks to this site and ministry I have been blessed with the truth of the Holy Scriptures. I am tring to learn all I can about the Lord Jesus as revealed in the scriptures. Thank you all soon much.

I have been tring to find a church home and there are many to choose from here where I live in the South. I heard the other day that my state is the number 2 most religous state in the union.

I visited a Baptist church and I was using a NIV. I was told that it is not the Word of God and that learnig from it was like eaten out of a dumpster. I was also told that the only people teaching or preaching at this church would be using the KJV only and that if anyone didn't like it they could hit the road.

My question is how do I find a church like GTY where I can grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Christ? Please help me understand and pray for me please that God our Savior will direct my wife and me to a healthy church.

Thank you for listening and God bless you all and this minsitry.

#18  Posted by Gabriel Powell  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 10:13 AM

David,

Unfortunately your experience in having a hard time finding a good church is common. Other than praying for you the best suggestion I have is to use The Master's Seminary site to see if there are any TMS graduates near you. If there are none close enough for you to attend, you might call the closest one and ask if they know of any solid churches in your area. You can find the list of TMS grads here: http://www.tms.edu/AlumniByCityState.aspx.

If that doesn't help you can also contact other good seminaries like Souther Baptist where Al Mohler is the president and see if they have any trusted churches in your area (I was unable to find a similar alumni list on their site).

#19  Posted by Elaine Bittencourt  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 10:16 AM

# 5 Michael,

just wanted to thank you once again for the info. I've listened to both of sermons. I thought that would be useful to pass along the link to the entire series (Charismatic Chaos):

https://www.gty.org/Shop/Audio+Series/219_Charismatic-Chaos

In Christ,

E.

#20  Posted by Mike Sexton  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 10:27 AM

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#21  Posted by Mike Sexton  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 10:28 AM

David,

I agree with Gabriel, it is a pretty common problem. I'm from the south too, and I came to where I am now (a reformed SBC minister) after coming out of an Assemblies church, a weird Buddhist/Christian hybrid belief and disgusted-with-modern-church-humanism. God brought me to a Southern Baptist church that introduced me to and nurtured me in sound doctrine. Unfortunately, not all SBC churches are the same. It's the same in every denomination I think. Gabriel's advice is pretty sound. The only other place I would advise to look, is possibly in some Presbyterian churches. The best thing you can do really is just continue to read the word, visit churches and pray that the Holy Spirit leads you to one that teaches true, sound doctrine and is seeking to make converts regularly rather than being content in the "our four and no more" mindset. Measure them as we are to measure all things...according to God's Word and to their fruit. I pray that you find one soon!

PS, sorry to all for my "deletes and reposts". My brain just isn't working right today.

#22  Posted by Douglas Mollett  |  Wednesday, January 20, 2010at 12:43 PM

As i listened to this blog i was reminded of Psalm 17:8-14 where David was being confronted by his wealthy enemies, and some things jumped out at me i'd like to share. verse 10 says "They have closed up their fat hearts; With their mouths they speak proudly. And verse 14 says "...From men of the world who have their portion in this life; and whose belly You fill with Your hidden treasure. they are satisfied with children, And leave the rest of their possession for their babes.'' The sad reality is that those who are enemies of the LORD have their reward now, but when they step into eternity, they must give an account to Him who will judge the world(Rev 20)

#23  Posted by Nicola Steenkamp  |  Thursday, January 21, 2010at 9:28 AM

Mike Sexton, thank you for sharing your comments. I read the scriptures out to my husband and we were both stunned at the power of the word seen from the light of truth. I came out of WOF church is SA and now we can see the errors for what they are nothing more than show & business. I priase God for calling us out and directing us to such ministries to learn the hard truth its fantastic. Blessings to everyone

#24  Posted by Mike Sexton  |  Thursday, January 21, 2010at 1:09 PM

Nicola, Praise God my sister! That is an awesome encouragement to hear. It's amazing how so much of the word can slip by us sometimes. I think that's how the WOF movement catches so many people. It elevates "special" or "personal" revelation to the position of being "God's Word" in the same sense as is the Bible. I do believe that God can speak to us. I believe He does. But I know that what "the Spirit says" to us will NEVER contradict what has already been said to and received by the church in scripture. (Galatians 1:8-9) His word is the greatest teacher, comforter and motivator there is! Knowing God's will for us is as simple as sitting down and opening the book. Thanks again for sharing!

#25  Posted by Chris Tye  |  Thursday, January 21, 2010at 7:07 PM

The sad thing about this whole money issue is that the people who beg for money are the ones who are teaching the most heresy. Our Pastor is a graduate of TMS and He does not recieve any pay or compensation for His work not only in the Church here in ABQ. or from the Bible Institute He started. His main concern is the TRUTH! Here in NM you have a choice catholisism or so called Christianity. Grace To You is such a blessing to more people than you know. Without GTY or TMS we would not have our Pastor. Thank You John Macarthur for your love for the Truth and the training of others. Here at AIBC we have no other choice but to believe and trust in God for all.

#26  Posted by Darla Wormuth  |  Thursday, January 21, 2010at 7:08 PM

David, Here are a few websites you can use to locate reformed churches.

http://www.reformedreader.org/rbchurches.htm

http://www.arbca.com/

http://www.biblebb.com/churches.htm

#27  Posted by Mark A Smith  |  Thursday, January 21, 2010at 7:51 PM

Chris Tye,

Please cut your pastor a check pronto...Bless him for his work. A workman is worth his labor. Encourage others to do the same.

#28  Posted by A. Amos Love  |  Friday, January 22, 2010at 8:53 AM

Gabriel

You write...

“the use of non-biblical terms was absolutely necessary in defending the biblical doctrine of the Trinity,”

Was wondering what “non-biblical terms” are neccessary to defend the belief that Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God.?

Why isn’t “The Word of God” enough?

When I find myself in a discussion about, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, with someone who is questioning or adamantly opposed to Jesus being God and the Holy Spirit being God, I always go to what the scriptures say about “the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit and these three are one.”

There are loads of scripture to show the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Yes?

Met someone a few years ago who said "Christ is NOT God." Over a six month period I sent him seven letters and he sent me six. Learned a lot in researching the subject. Wound up turning the seven letters into a free book. Along with "A quick precise guide for knowing and sharing who Jesus is."

"Is Jesus God. Seven letters to Les."

Twenty one examples explaining how the Bible

consistently Interchanges and Identifies Jesus with God.

http://web.me.com/love101/Love/Seven_Letters_to_Les_2.html

I would love to get your opinion, your review, of what is written.

In His Service. By His Grace.

Peace...

#29  Posted by Wayne Credle, Sr  |  Friday, January 22, 2010at 3:30 PM

Greetings and Blessings to All again;

The Church is the ekklesia-the called out individuals, and not the structure nor merely the administration.

Suggested reading in addition to Grace to You messages is Paul Little's "Know What You Beliveve".

Although we were initially commenting on the lovers of mammon, I am greatly enlightened and appreciative to read the writings from others, We are not to fail to assemble ourselves according to Paul, but there is no fellowship with false prophets and profiteers who would make merchandise of us all if we allowed.2nnd John !0-11.

I thank each and everyone of you for you insight, you struggles and inspiration to lay out many truths validating and verfying the authority and authentcity of the Scriptures.

Faith and Prayers Always,

Wayne

#30  Posted by Link Hudson  |  Monday, January 25, 2010at 8:48 PM

If you look at the story of Michiah and Ahab, you can see that there was one prophet with the word of the Lord, and 400 speaking a false word. The 400 false words did not mean the gift of prophecy was not found in Israel. It did not prove that prohpecy had ceased with Moses or Samuel. Today, there are plenty of people predicting things that do not come to pass, making their claims in the name of the Lord. There are people prophesying money into their own coffers. There are plenty of loud preachers prophesying hype. But there are also those genuine prophetic words. There are prophetic words and words of knowledge that are clearly supernatural. There are times when someone who doens't know you prays for you and prays about details they could not know naturally. There are words that come to pass. There are prophecies that strengthen believers. Honestly, we should expect this to be the case. The New Testament teaches that the Spirit gifts gifts like prophecy and the word of knowledge to the church. But there are also warnings. The Bible tells about a falling away in the last days. It warns that our Lord Jesus will not accept everyone who calls Him Lord, even those who claim to prophesy and cast out devils in his name. And even believers are warned about the need to test spirits and not fall into error. Real believers can err in these matters as well. John MacArthur wrote,>>Historic Protestantism is grounded in the conviction that the canon is closed. No "new" revelation is necessary, because Scripture is complete and absolutely sufficient.<

#31  Posted by Link Hudson  |  Monday, January 25, 2010at 8:49 PM

While I appreciate the wealth of wisdom that can be gained from traditional protestantism, it is not the foundation of my belief system. If by 'Scripture is complete and absolutely sufficient' one means that we need not heed the teaching of scripture on spiritual gifts, then one is wrong. Something I have noticed about John MacArthur's arguments for cessationism is, if you really examine them, there is no meat to them. Charismatic Chaos, while it has plenty of wacky examples, doesn't have a true BIBLICAL argument for the cessation of the gifts. If you look at the Old Testament, a lot of the miracles occurred during times when scripture was most likely NOT being written on a major scale. Apparently, the stories about Samuel, Elijah, and Elisha were written down some time after these events occurred (e.g. I and II Kings is one long narrative.)Arguing that miracles only occured in Old Testament times when scripture or revelation was being given-- in the era before John and Christ made the promise of baptizing people in the Holy Spirit--doesn't apply to our time anyway. In the last days, Joel said, God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh. I've heard of post-modernism, a rather non-sensical term. Arguing that we live in the 'post-last days' is completely nonsensical. We are in the last days now. I find it ironic that John MacArthur believes in a futuristic interpretation of Revelation and is against the idea of the continuance of these spiritual gifts. In the last days there are two witnesses who prophesy. These prophets aren't just 'prophets' in the Reformation sense of the word of being preachers. They are prophets in the Biblical sense of the word. They do miraculous things involving fire and the heavens. Clearly, prophecy and miracles haven't ceased yet or they wouldn't be able to show up in the last days. I know some Dispensationalists like to argue that the church will be taken out of the way, and then miracles will be possible. (My Bible says that Christ will give the church rest when he returns executing vengence on them that believe not, but that is another topic.) But if having prophets and miracles NOW violates sola scriptura, so does having prophets and miracles at the end time. If writing the end of Revelation put an end to God communicating except through scripture and miracles, then even the preterists couldn't have any miracle-working prophets hanging around after Revelation was written and dying before the end of the century. But I guess they get to allegoricalize everything.Let's look at the scripture presented to argue for cessationism based on the concept of sufficiency of scriture. 2 Timothy 3:16-17Notice 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Paul tells Timothy:From childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.If this verse teaches that God would stop giving revelation, then we should cut verse 18 through the rest of the chapter out of our Bibles, along with anything written later. We would also need to ignore that the written scriptures that Timothy had growing up was the Old Testament. It is unlikely that he had any New Testament scriptures as a child. When we first see him in Acts, he is a young man, and the church he was in was probably only a couple of years old at most. The Bible teaches that spiritual gifts like words of wisdom, words of knowledge, prophecy, healings, and the working of miracles are gifts the Spirit gives to the church. Scripture commands believers to 'Covet to prophesy.' We are commanded to despise not prophesyings. This is 'instruction in righteousness.' This is 'doctrine' when it comes to spiritual gifts. These spiritual gifts, among many other things, help equip believers to be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Paul reproves the Corinthians regarding spiritual gifts, instructing them to use tongues and prophecy in an orderly manner, for example, instructing the speaking prophet to hold his peace if another sitting by recieves a revelation. The speaker in tongues is to be silent in the church if there is no interpreter. These are instructions in righteousness. They are reproof regarding spiritual gifts. If we want to apply II Timothy 3:16-17 to the New Testament teachings on spiritual gifts, we should NOT do so by rejecting the teaching of scripture on spiritual gifts. Rather, we do so by believing and obeying these things.I've come across people who try to argue that since the scriptures are given so that we might be thoroughly equipped for every good work, that we don't need spiritual gifts. Does that make sense? Since we have the Bible, do we no longer need the things the Bible teaches us about?Let's apply this to some other doctrines beside spiritual gifts. How would you react if a guest speaker came to your church, read II Timothy 3:16-17 and made statements like this,"We don't need to have love any more because we have the Bible.""We don't need to have faith any more because we have the Bible.""We don't need to have water baptism any more because we have the Bible.""We don't need to have self-control any more because we have the Bible.""We don't need to have evangelists any more because we have the Bible.""We don't need to have elders any more because we have the Bible.""We don't need to have the Holy Spirit at work in us any more because we have the Bible."Surely, you would not agree with such teaching. The leadership wouldn't accept it. But why is it that people apply the same kind of reasoning to spiritual gifts, and no one flinches?If someone says,"We don't need to have predictive prophecy any more because we have the Bible"a lot of cessationist audiences will agree with him.When it comes to sufficiency, this verse does not say that the Bible is all we need anyway. It tells us that scritpure is given that "that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work". A US soldier is given a rifle so that he might be thoroughly equipped, but if all he has is the rifle, he isn't thoroughly equipped. He needs bullets (and a helmet, and clothing, and boots.) The scriptures are given that we might be thoroughly equipped, but having a Bible is not enough. Plenty of atheists own copies of the Bible. Rather, we need to have the things at work in our lives that the Bible says we need. We need to have love, faith, and self-control. Of course, we need to be water baptized as soon as we can after understanding and believing the Gospel. We can benefit from the ministry of evangelists and elders. And we need the ministry of the Holy Spirit. The Bible also teaches us that spiritual gifts are given to edify the body of Christ. Ephesians 4 shows us that mutual edification is needed for the maturing of the body. So we need spiritual gifts. Some of these happen to be supernatural, and we need to accept and believe what the Bible says about them, too.So we shouldn't throw out the teaching of scripture because of (an interpretation of) historic Protestant interpretation of the role of the Bible. There is no indication that the apostles took this approach to the Bible.

#32  Posted by Link Hudson  |  Monday, January 25, 2010at 8:51 PM

Btw, it is a bit taky that this website asks for your billing address just to post a comment on the website, especially a website with posts like this. It just doesn't look good, imo.