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Wednesday, August 11, 2010 | Comments (57)

Although we’ve noticed the steady, pebble-by-pebble crumbling of the family for decades, we’re now watching the landslide. We live in an age where society is no longer content to simply ignore the sanctity of marriage and the family—it attacks it with a vengeance. God’s established order for life has become a threat to this culture’s pursuit of sexual freedom.

Consider the global range of attacks on the family within the last decade. Back in 2000, Dutch parliament passed the first legislation in history that granted same-sex couples the right to marry. Following the Netherland’s lead were Belgium (2003), Spain (2005), Canada (2005), South Africa (2006), and Norway (2008). Although traditional marriage was challenged much earlier in the U.S. (1993), social conservatives and moral majority leaders quickly enacted protective measures, prompting Congress to adopt same-sex marriage bans nationwide. The bans didn’t last long. Conservative “victories” were short-lived as judges began lifting bans and pushing Congress to amend the constitution. Since 2008, opposition against marriage and the family has intensified in America, taking many unsuspecting Christians by surprise.

The most recent example happened in California last week. On August 4, elected U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker, himself a homosexual, carried out his own attack against the family. He used his judicial powers to overturn the will of California’s voters regarding Proposition 8, which proposed an amendment to California’s constitution, defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Judge Walker declared Proposition 8 unconstitutional. Period. At this point, Judge Walker has won a temporary victory for the pro-homosexual agenda to redefine the fundamental concept of marriage according to their preferred sin.

Brace yourself, believer. You’re going to keep seeing this fire-storm of opposition against the family. Soon, many people will consign Christians who uphold a biblical view of marriage and family to the same moral category as white supremacy groups, and they’ll consider any effort to oppose homosexuality as a hate crime. In fact, it won’t be long before this blog post becomes a violation of law, under “hate speech” legislation.

Take another example: Carrie Prejean, one of the contestants in the 2009 Miss USA pageant, made public statements against same-sex marriage. The media demanded her head on a platter. One of the judges, a homosexual, asked whether she believed every state should legalize same-sex marriage. Prejean responded, “I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.” Officials of the pageant immediately expressed outrage and open hostility toward her convictions. Prejean is no model of biblical Christianity, but the hostile reactions to her simple confession is a sample of what’s to come.

With mounting intensity, society continues to wage war on the traditional, biblical view of the family. Another key player in this war is Hollywood. Whenever Hollywood portrays families in modern films, television dramas, and sitcoms, they nearly always caricature them as a grossly dysfunctional unit. Not only is there a noted absence of any male leadership in most instances, but oftentimes there’s no authority figure present at all, creating a scenario where anything goes. But not only is dad absent, so is mom. She’s either working outside the home, or working on an adulterous relationship. Even the titles of many mainline television programs betray their outrageous content. Programs such as ‘Sex in the City’ and ‘Desperate Housewives’ have turned marital infidelity into a laughing matter. It’s prime-time “entertainment,” and Americans eat it up.

Such portrayals of the American family were once rare for Hollywood, but now they literally dominate the big-screen. And here’s why: they are accurate reflections of our fallen culture, a culture that systematically undermines love, order, authority, and righteousness. Commenting on the epidemic absence of morality within society, John MacArthur writes:

Casual sex is expected. Divorce is epidemic. Marriage itself is in decline, as multitudes of men and women have decided it’s preferable to live together without making a covenant or formally constituting a family. Abortion is a worldwide plague. Juvenile delinquency is rampant, and many parents have deliberately abandoned their roles of authority in the family. On the other hand, child abuse in many forms is escalating.

All those elements prevail in our society and resonate with our fallen flesh. Therefore, they dominate the entertainment industry. It’s the law of supply and demand in action. Hollywood gives people what they want—corruption.

Trying to find a traditional, structured family anywhere on television is nearly impossible. While lamenting Hollywood’s sick portrayal of families,someone made the following observation:

The only television “family” who regularly attend church together are the Simpsons—and they are cartoon exaggerations deliberately saddled with the worst imaginable traits, designed mainly to mock and malign both church and family. It’s no joke, though. A relentless parade of similarly dysfunctional assortments of people assaults us on television and in the movies. Hollywood has given a broad new meaning to the word family. Meanwhile, traditional nuclear families with a strong, reliable father and a mother whose priorities are in the home have been banished from popular culture, made to feel as if they were the caricature.

Such examples may seem subtle and harmless to some Christians. But over time, like water erosion on the face of rock, these secular ideas at first influence then control the thinking of many unsuspecting Christians who expose their families to such corrupting ideas.

Take Lot, for example. Lot “pitched his tent as far as Sodom.” Why is that significant? Because ”the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord.” The next time we find Lot in the inspired record, he is no longer a stranger to the wicked inhabitants of Sodom—he’s one of their leading citizens. Further, he calls them his “brothers,” chooses one of their citizens as his wife, and raises his two daughters in a pagan environment. Apparently, Lot acclimatized himself to the wicked lifestyle of the Sodomites. When God sent two angels to rescue His family, the entire male population of Sodom sought to assault the angelic visitors sexually, who had lodged with Lot’s family for the night. What was Lot’s solution to the problem? He quickly offered his two virgin daughters to satisfy their sexual cravings. During the angelic rescue, Lot was reluctant to abandon his residence in Sodom, and when he finally realized the danger he and his family were in, his sons-in-law mocked his warnings to flee. Apparently, the citizens of Sodom didn't take Lot too seriously when it came to discussions about God.

In the New Testament, Peter uses the story of Lot as an example of how God can rescue His people from the jaws of temptation. In the process, he sheds additional light on the severity of Sodom’s corrupting influence when he writes that God, “delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day be seeing and hearing their lawless deeds).” After God rescued Lot’s family and sent judgment upon Sodom, Lot’s wife, longing to return to her sinful pattern of life was turned into a pillar of salt. Following that tragedy, Lot’s two daughters got their father drunk and committed sexual incest with him in order to preserve their family lineage. The record of Lot closes on a bitter note—he was a tormented soul who jeopardized himself and his family with a compromised way of life. For his legacy, he spawned two cursed people groups—the Ammorites and the Moabites.

If God hadn’t told us Lot was “righteous” (2 Peter 2:7, 8), it would be very difficult to identify Him as a citizen of God’s kingdom. The story of Lot is a classic example of how easily the world is able to pollute and corrupt a righteous mind.

Christian, how close have you pitched your tent to Sodom? Have you taken a close look at your family lately?

Think about this: How are today’s Christians indifferent or asleep in the cultural battle for the family? How is the enemy infiltrating Christian homes (e.g., immersion in modern technology, exposure to secular entertainment)? Enjoy the thread.

Tommy Clayton
Web Content Developer


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#1  Posted by Mike Sexton  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 5:15 AM

My first impulse is to bristle and get defensive about modern technology. After all, if it weren't for modern tech, we wouldn't be here right now having this discussion. It has made it possible for men of God to be trained and equipped with works that I never would have imagined before. Unfortunately, (as I've experienced myself), that training isn't often guided personally by wise leaders and so the armchair theologian runs the risk of living with some pretty erroneous theology until the Spirit leads Him otherwise. It also is undeniable that modern tech makes the most vile evil possible with very little to no effort on the part of the errant sinner. I remember the B.I. days (before internet), when it took some pretty massive effort on the part of myself to dive into it is an instantaneous monster that devours men and ministries whole.

But even with those shortcomings, we must place the blame squarely on our own shoulders. James is pretty clear that sin comes from within us, and we choose to bring it out. My wife and I haven't been yet blessed with a child, but I pray that when we are, we will be faithful not to do like so many I've seen (many in leadership!) who allow music, television, movies, and loose morality to run roughshod over their sons and daughters. I pray that we all would wake up and be more diligent in our pursuit of holiness for ourselves and our families. We need it now more than ever!

#2  Posted by Keith Strunk  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 6:13 AM

I see many from my own flock who have not forsaken the key aggressor in this war, namely, the media and Hollywood. Christian liberty is used to justify the viewing of material that was once banned from prime-time television.

Christian families need to be prayerfully brought to the place where they truly desire to honor God rather than satisfy their own comfort and desires. Only when they cherish His glory over their pleasure will they forsake the culture's demands on their attention. And as they do, they will be blessed with contentment.

#3  Posted by James Park  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 6:49 AM

Thank you once again for starting another superb topic on the GTY website! I have a problem that as been on my mind for some time regarding the current status of homosexuality. Nearly all the people I interact with that view homosexuality as an acceptable unison believe that the current homophobic trend is another form of racism. They believe that the current suppression of homosexuality run parallel to how different races were treated before the civil rights movement in America. I understand this is an incorrect view, but I cannot seem to explain how exactly it's incorrect. To make matters worse, people used the bible to support slavery and racial discrimination before, and I'm afraid people will accuse me of doing the same thing when presenting what the bible says about homosexuality.

I understand that this was not the main point of this blog, so please forgive me for hi-jacking this thread for my own purposes.

#4  Posted by Greg Tegman  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 7:23 AM

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#5  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 7:35 AM


What you encounter is a typical propaganda ploy by homosexual advocates. They are arguing that homosexual orientation is genetic, and hence any person who denies the homosexual's orientation and attempts to tell him or her to change it to "normal," is like telling a black person to be white. Obviously such a thing is impossible.

But there is no proof of such a genetic link in homosexual orientation. That is not to say such orientation isn't real, just that other factors may be contributing to the cause; not genetics.

The Master's Seminary faculty did a series of lecture on homosexuality a couple of years ago that was published in the fall 2008 TMS journal. You can find the journal articles here:

I also have written on the subject of homosexual revisionist apologetics and the Bible at my own personal blog:

#6  Posted by James Park  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 9:04 AM

Dear Fred,

Thank you for such a quick reply! I will check out the links in a bit. I too have heard claims about homosexuality being related to genetics, but the problem I have encountered was not that of it being a genetics issue, but a political one. Perhaps the genetic issue might be the underlying cause for this reasoning, but most of the homosexual marriage advocates I have encountered seemed to believe that homosexuals are being persecuted and treated as second-class citizens because they are different- much like how African-Americans were treated before the civil rights movement. What I am basically seeing now is this new movement in homosexual equality is being equated to the civil rights movement of the 1960s. And to fight against this dawning of a new age means that I am no better than the racists to tried to keep African-Americans under their control.

#7  Posted by Thomas Meier  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 9:39 AM


Piggybacking on what Mr. Butler has said (and I almost hate to say this), most people who say that opposition to homosexuality is like racism a generation or two ago have no idea what racism was like. They speak out of ignorance. As Mr. Butler pointed out, they try to draw a connection between the two ideas by saying both race and homosexuality are genetic, that you can't choose either. However, a) race is a myth, at least how we use the word today (go ask Thabiti Anyabwile); and b) even if it weren't a myth, it's not a moral issue. There is nothing "wrong" with being any particular "race." Homosexuality, along with any other deviant sexual behavior, IS a moral issue.

IOW, what these proponents do is try to justify homosexuality by taking it out of the "moral" category and put it in the "genetics" category. They know that, to an extent, morals can be "helped." If you're born that way, then you can't help it.

It's sneaky and it almost sounds right, and it sounds like you've experienced that. However, the bottom line is that argument is contradictory to Scripture, which is God's revealed moral will.



#8  Posted by Paul Tucker  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 9:42 AM

Hi Folks: Thanks Fred for the web sites (I have to go to work soon so I'll view them when I get home.) Great discussion here!

Don't you find it odd how folks equate sexual orientation in ways we would never do for other mental health issues? We would never give a sociopath the right to murder folks because that is his orientation or genetic predisposition. We do not treat physical disorders any different, if a person has a deformity we don't call that "normal" and make everyone treat it as normal. People that are not able to ambulate without some form of prosthetic limb or vehicle are not ask to act like they are able to walk up stairs normally. That is why we have ramps for those folks. Form function follows form, form follows function. To allow the homosexual the "right" to his/her orientation is oblique to the real issue.(Next we will allow bestiality, S&M, etc as "normal" behaviors.) The real issue is defining what "normal sexual behavior" is... even if homosexuality were genetic... not that I believe it for one moment, but if it were... it would only be an aboration of normal. "The exception confirms the rule".

In addition, one of the marks of the sexual aborant is that of markedly aggressive proselytism, which is the only way they can gain followers. Just a thought

#9  Posted by Fred Butler  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 9:48 AM

James writes,

Perhaps the genetic issue might be the underlying cause for this reasoning, but most of the homosexual marriage advocates I have encountered seemed to believe that homosexuals are being persecuted and treated as second-class citizens because they are different- much like how African-Americans were treated before the civil rights movement.

Well. The reality is is that homosexuals ARE NOT being treated like blacks in the pre-civil rights era. This is just dishonest rhetoric. They are not being treated as 2nd class citizen and have the same rights afford to them as anyone else in the United States. What is happening is that they are being pushed back on their efforts to redefine the historical understanding of marriage as societies have defined it for thousands of years. This is not prejudice in any way related to civil rights for ethnic groups.

#10  Posted by Anthony Aguilar  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 10:39 AM

I agree with Fred. The homosexual movement seems to be attempting to turn the debate into a classic struggle consistent with and comparable to the black-white racism issue. The reality is that it's nothing of the sort. The issues of the racism debate and the homosexual debate are not just different, but largely unrelated to each other. Any attempt to draw parallels between the two will prove, therefore, to be logically fallible.

This blog was a good read, Mr. Clayton. Thank you for this. I look forward to reading and participating in the rest of the series.

#11  Posted by Connie Dennis  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 10:56 AM

Today’s Christians, for the most part, will not put God as top priority. How can a person know how to live for Christ and protect themselves from the enemy, if they are not reading the Bible, and trying to understand and apply God’s principles to our everyday life. Families are so "busy" and the battles are soooo everywhere that it is completely overwhelming trying to counter the bad influences, even if you are a student of the Bible and trying to live it.

I recognize and acknowledge that technology and communication has been a tremendous blessing in many ways. I love using the web to learn more about the Bible, especially through the Grace To You Archives.

Yet, look at how technology and communication are being used by people who love their sin and want others to participate. These bad influences (some just blatant sin) are open ***no-accountability*** avenues of temptation that are easily turned into sin and include:

-Ads that come in our newspapers and magazines would qualify as pornography 20 years ago

-Walking down the mall is the same, both with ads and the way many people dress

-Magazines at checkout counters


-Video games

-Basic-station TV (not even cable)


-Many things that pass for art/theater

-Social networks

-Cell Phone/Texting/Web Surfing/Picture sharing

-Web content and much more

It is not enough that I, as an adult, have to deal with these constant battles; but now add kids to the mix! It is nearly impossible to completely monitor what a young teen is looking at and participating in because of technology. Even if they don’t have cable TV, a cell phone or IPOD, the next kid does and shows them everything we are trying to avoid. Next, the school shows them movies that would not be shown in our home and teaches things that contradict what we have taught them. It is brutal already. I cannot imagine what is around the corner. Come quickly Lord Jesus!

#12  Posted by Christine Hickman  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 11:21 AM

Your blog article was like a breath of fresh air in a polluted environment of distortions and indifference concerning same-sex marriage. Thank you for writing about it. Since marriage is God's idea, as Christians, we ought to stand for nothing less than His plan for marriage. We are the Bride of Christ and Paul tells us our marriages should be example's of His relationship with us. We want to glorify God by standing firm on the concept of one man-one woman marriage, come what may.

If this issue was about the "rights" of the downtrodden, why aren't these same pro-gay lawyers also defending the cause of the most neglected, helpless among us - the unborn child? Because they want to redefine marriage, not defend "rights."

#13  Posted by Brian Jonson  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 11:56 AM

Dear Greg:

I'm so sorry that your family is going through this. I understand. It's difficult not to get angry when you consider these "user friendly" churches are essentially accomplices to the spiritual degradation of millions. Keep speaking up, with gentleness and love, and keep taking your kids to God's word. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit can bring sense to their minds.


#15  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 2:33 PM

If a son or daughter became a homosexual in a godly family. Should a their father reject him or her? Just thinking of a question I heard.

Why because I heard one christian lady accepted her son homosexuality

and don't do a thing about it. Sad. Reason was her husband divorced him.

A kid going through divorce, death, and wrong crowd can lead him to

homosexuality. Just to let you know some things can hurt a kid emotionally and even spiritually too.

We need to read God's Word to kids when they are born to when they leave

the household, so they can stand strong.

#16  Posted by Elaine Bittencourt  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 3:10 PM

# 4 - Greg. I am sorry to hear about your family. I know how you feel, it's frustrating sometimes. I have to constantly remind myself that I am not in control, God is. I will pray for your family.

# 11 - Connie. I am happy to know that I am not the only one bothered by mall signs and ads. It's getting worse and worse. At times like these I remind myself that we are not of this world, but we are in this world, we are in it, but we won't be contaminated with it as long as we keep God's Word in our hearts and minds. It's not easy. It's very hard. Especially because the more we grow in the faith and knowledge of Jesus, more and more wordly things bother us and make us uncomfortable.

I make mine your words: "Come quickly Lord Jesus!"

#17  Posted by Michael Varley  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 3:25 PM

Dear 52 year old Greg;

Be of good cheer my friend. The Bible says, "Seek Me and ye shall find Me". No matter what the circumstances in a persons life, each and every one of us have a day of visitation. I was born again after walking in a false salvation for 2 years. The Holy Spirit led me out of a Charismatic Church filled with error and Heresy. There is no human condition or circumstance capable of resisting God's Grace and Will for "His" people. Unless a person is willfully ignorant of Gods Word, "With God, all things are possible" . Be sure your doctrine is rock solid my friend and I suggest you examine the opportunities you have to witness to your family in a manner that our faith instructs us to.

God Bless, and do not lose heart, for Jesus has overcome the world.

#18  Posted by Michael Varley  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 3:53 PM

The Bible says to hate that which is evil and love that which is good. I can't help but notice the darkness that is encroaching across the globe with each waking day and it makes my stomach turn. I definitely understand what Paul meant when he said, "Fight the good fight". I am not ashamed of Christ.

#19  Posted by Tommy Clayton  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 4:20 PM

# 15 Dan:

If a son or daughter forsakes the truth and embraces a sinful lifestyle of any variety—including homosexuality—our first duty is clear. Love them.

The prodigal son’s father is a great example of the attitude we should exhibit toward sinners, especially our own children. Love, wait, watch, and pray.

Of course, loving sinners includes communicating the gospel to them and pointing out their sin. But here’s the reality: unless they are regenerate and repentant, your words will fall on deaf ears.

We should always be ready to give a defense of the faith (1 Pet. 3:15), but we must do so with gentleness and reverence. There’s no exemption in that verse for parents with lost children, or children with lost parents.

#20  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 4:25 PM

Tks Tom,

It's been on my mind. I agree with you. God bless.

#21  Posted by Jorge Alvarado  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 6:40 PM

Re "How are today’s Christians indifferent or asleep in the cultural battle for the family?"

Maybe being indifferent or asleep is not the only conclusion we can come to in this battle. I think "overwhelmed" would be more accurate.

We have so many "fronts" to battle. The internal attacks (in the church) alone are enough to debilitate the strongest christian.

When we have (as some have pointed out) people believing it is the job of the church to keep us "safe" from the world; That just believing in Jesus would magically "fix" everything; or, more importantly, that our enemy is "the immoral" in society, we have more of an uphill battle.

No doubt the world takes care of it's own. Everything in TV, film and print media is meant, by design, to appeal to whatever sells. It only reflects what the majority accepts. It doesn't take much to realize what we see in entertainment is a poorly disguised attempt to make anything "moral" something that has to be fought. Even Disney, for crying out loud, portrays parents and adults as know nothing nincompoops who are so "out of it" they can easily be ignored. Not to mentioned some of their company policies that show clear acceptance of immoral lifestyles, all in the name of P.C inclusion, that now most companies have made a part of their company creed.

Let's just remember, and take to heart

Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

All we can really do is keep ourselves, and our families, anchored in the many teachings of scripture, like

Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

#22  Posted by Curtis Swank  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 6:59 PM

When you hear or have been told those that are practicing homosexuals have no choice in their sexuality because they are born that way, they are saying that they were born with a DNA that makes them be attracked to the same sex. Let the question be asked (in love) what do you do with those people that lived in decades of the gay life and then came to Christ and became a healthy happy husband or wife of the other sex? Its like saying that you have been created with a certain set of fingerprints (DNA) and then ten, twenty years later you look down and notice that you have a differnt set of prints or the color of your eyes have changed from blue to pink. The DNA claim cannot hold to the truth of those redeemed men and women who have been rescuded from the lie and have been found in the truth which has set them free.Jeremiah 5:1 [Jerusalem's Godlessness] "Roam to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, And look now and take note. And seek in her open squares, If you can find a man, If there is one who does justice, who seeks truth, Then I will pardon her.

#23  Posted by Dominic Mcclintock  |  Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 11:04 PM

This is true. I have been convicted by God and have tried to purge our home with the filth we've collected. Oh may God, reveal our sins, may He be praised and not us for the good He can do. Lot's life was sad. He was deceived, but God showed him mercy. May be learn from this example and never be a "Lot's wife" and keep our hand to the plow of doing God's will

#24  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 5:48 AM

I am going to read the Tale of Two Sons by JM. It relates to this blog.

Just letting you know.

#25  Posted by Paul Neil  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 9:39 AM

Brilliant Article!

Think about this: How are today’s Christians indifferent or asleep in the cultural battle for the family? How is the enemy infiltrating Christian homes (e.g., immersion in modern technology, exposure to secular entertainment)?

I would say the Church just doesnt esteems the Word of God high enough.

One thing that has come to my attention is the child idol thing and the books that parents allow their children to read. I think many suffer from a popularity or fame syndrome (I am talking about the Church here). We see a young "innocent" Hannah Montannah and then she grows up and starts to behave in a lose manner. By this time our children are addicted to her. I have a young daughter and I have made up in my mind that as much as the LORD will give me strength she will have no idols in her life, no teen stars. I pray that I will be an exmaple of Christ before her and that she will grow to love Christ with all her heart.

I have a question regarding the child that chooses homosexuality. If the child lives at home with you, do you allow him/her to stay at home? what about if there are younger siblings who can be influenced?

Love them, I agree however as in the prodigal son, the son was not at home sinning it up, he went about his own business.


#26  Posted by Tommy Clayton  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 10:05 AM

Good observation, Paul.

The prodigal son illustrates (among other things) the kind of attitude we should adopt toward sinners. That’s the purpose I had in mind. True, the son abandoned his father; but the father never left his son. That’s the point.

There’s no “one answer fits all” to your question. There are so many factors to consider in that scenario, such as the child’s: age, influence on other siblings as you pointed out, whether or not he (or she) is brazenly flaunting his sinful lifestyle, relationship with parents, and most importantly, whether or not the child is truly seeking help. Those are just a few factors, and they all vary.

I think parents facing that situation would be foolish not to consult their pastor for counsel, prayer, wisdom and encouragement. Flippant decisions are both foolish and dangerous in those kinds of situations, and they often compound the problem by ostracizing the sinner and removing him further away from spiritual help.

I think this topic will be dealt with more fully when we address the scriptural duty of parents toward their children.

#27  Posted by Mary Kidwell  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 10:36 AM

There is a sobering editorial in today's Washington Times ( by Alan Wisdom of the Institute on Religion and Democracy. In referring to the recent ruling of Judge Walker striking down California's Proposition 8, he quotes Judge Walker who stated as "fact" that "religious beliefs that gay and lesbian relationships are sinful or inferior to heterosexual relationships harm gays and lesbians." Alan Wisdom concludes that this "will escalate the culture wars by officially labeling traditional religious believers and bodies as enemies of the core constitutional value of 'equal protection.'"

It is clear that those who uphold a biblical view of marriage are in for turbulent waters ahead but we can not deny God's Word. God is our Rock and our Shield. We must speak the truth in love without flinching and uphold one another in prayer.

#28  Posted by Paul Neil  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 11:28 AM

Thanks Tommy.

I agree regarding the fathers love for his child, amazing! What I find all too often is an inbalance as to where the parent is condoning the childs ways and calling it the Love of God. What I have witnessed is the Child reaching adulthood and they are worse.

The fathers love in the story is representative of Gods love for us and we know that whom The LORD loves he chastens. Its not a love thats void of discipline and correction.

Proverbs 13:24He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

I would say that this is a place where the world is invading the Church. Children are taught to be rebellious through the music, TV and even school.

I look forward to the upcoming teachings.

This is really good stuff that the church needs but too many are busy trying to "speak things into being" and waiting for their "Season" to come.

Thanks again!


#29  Posted by Tommy Clayton  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 11:45 AM

This just in . . .

Jennifer Aniston stars in an upcoming movie, ‘The Switch.’ She plays Kassie, a single woman desperate for a baby who decides to have artificial insemination in order to raise a child.

It seems that this movie is much more than a paycheck for Aniston—it’s her own personal campaign against the traditional family.

People magazine quoted Aniston as saying, “the point of the movie is what it is that defines family? It isn’t necessarily the traditional mother, father, two children and a dog named Spot.” She went on to say, “Love is love and family is what is around you and who is in your immediate sphere. That is what I love about this movie. It is saying it is not the traditional sort of stereotype of what we have been taught as a society of what family is.”

At a press conference for her upcoming film, she said: “Women are realizing it more and more knowing that they don’t have to settle with a man just to have that child . . . Times have changed and what is amazing is that we do have so many options these days, as opposed to our parents’ days when you can’t have children because you have waited too long.”

Get ready for more of this from Hollywood. The influence this movie will have upon young minds is incalculable. It serves as yet another example of the world’s relentless campaign of hatred against God’s Word.

#30  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 12:53 PM

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#31  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM

1 John 1;15-17-

Do not love the world or things in the world. If anyone loves

the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that

is in the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and

the pride of life- is not of the Father but is of the world. And

the world is passing away and the lust of it: but he who does the

will of God abides forever.


#32  Posted by Donavan Dear  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 3:26 PM

The opening statement of this blog subject is a great example of the thinking that dispensationalism brings.

The landslide of oppressing opposition culture tears away at the poor little Christian church, maybe we should just all cower in some dark subculture and hope God takes us all out in the rapture, hopefully before the big bad antichrist comes and picks on us. The modern church is so pessimistic because of its eschatology. When the modern dispensational church talks about the power of the gospel Rom 1, or the great commission Matt 28, what does it really mean? Until the church changes its future outlook to a positive Biblical one the Church will not have a strong voice in culture. Before 1830 the Church took the lead in music, art, science, cultural thought in general now the Church leads in none of these, the church is crying and wining about society because it's only reacting and has lost it's ability to be proactive.

#33  Posted by Gabriel Powell (GTY Admin)  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 3:46 PM

Hi Donavan,

You have made an important point, namely, that our theology has an impact on our outlook on life, culture, and society.

Based on previous discussions I think you would agree with the standard doctrines of grace and God's sovereignty in salvation. If that is the case, is the state of our culture the result of God's failed election of more people because the church hasn't done it's job, or has the church failed to convince the mass of morally depraved people and leaders?

It sounds to me like you're blaming the church for where the culture is, but that is inconsistent with a view of God's sovereignty, the depravity of man, and the doctrine of election.

You're almost certainly aware of ministries like Focus on the Family and the ACLJ and many others that have sought through various means, including political, to influence the culture. Surely, you're aware of the millions of dollars that spent by Christians attempting to defend biblical morality through judicial and legislative means. The recent decision to overturn Prop. 8 in California is an example where many Christians fought long and hard, and ultimately were overruled by one man whose sinful lifestyle was implicated by the case. The constant battles over abortion have massive support by Christians and non-Christians alike--yet they are repeatedly defeated.

The Church (more often para-church ministries) isn't absent from the fight, they are simply using the wrong weapons.

Dispensationalism does not cause anyone to hide in a dark corner waiting for the rapture--that is a misleading representation. What dispensationalism does is help us not be surprised at the situation we find ourselves in, regardless of efforts to sustain biblical morality in the culture. Postmillenialism and some forms of Ammillenialism, on the other hand, cause many to fight against their own theology thinking they can overturn depraved societies apart from the gospel.

#34  Posted by Donavan Dear  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 4:24 PM


I agree with your post that our theology has an impact on our outlook. But more accurately stated our poor theology has an impact on our outlook culturally. Gods sovereignty is certainly the cause of our salvation, no doubt there, but it is the means that God blesses, that's why calvinists have always been missionary minded.

What I'm saying is that dispensationalism paints a pessimistic view of the future (Antichrist, millions of Jews dying, Armageddon, Seas of Blood) and all this is constantly coming soon soon soon. Jay Vernon McGee said it best "Why polish brass on a sinking ship". Think this idea through, it makes the church impotent. The Gates of Hell will not prevail against us doesn't mean the church withstanding the attack of Hell it means the Gates of Hell will not stand against the attack of the church, this is a huge difference in meaning and it makes a difference when combating sin on a cultural level.

#35  Posted by Gabriel Powell (GTY Admin)  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 4:39 PM


I didn't see a response to my comment there. I'm not arguing about McGee, I'm saying the system of dispensationalism doesn't necessitate the passivism you ascribe to it. This blog post/series is not about dispensationalism, so I don't want to get side-tracked, only to say that the pessimistic view you described comes straight from Revelation, not a theological system.

Nevertheless, let me ask you this: what is the task of the church? Are we to evangelize the lost, or transform culture? My guess is you'd say something like, "both". In response I would ask, where in Scripture are we commanded to transform culture? Where does Jesus seek to combat anything that was wrong in the culture in which He lived? If we are to imitate Jesus, I think we are, what did Jesus do regarding culture that we are to imitate?

The battle for culture is to be fought at the level of our own hearts. We are to ensure that we and our families are products of Scripture, not culture. The question this post asked is not "how are you fighting culture?" but rather "how are you fighting the effects of culture in your own life and family?"

#37  Posted by Donavan Dear  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 5:48 PM


Here is a response to your post you said:

"what is the task of the church? Are we to evangelize the lost, or transform culture? My guess is you'd say something like, "both"

The answer is in Matt: 28 The Great Commission.

Yes it is the Churches fault, dispensationalism does make a difference, just like other poor trends in theology made a difference in their culture.

#38  Posted by Ernest Gregoire  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 6:16 PM

I wrote a piece for Rapture Ready called A story with in a Story! I was posted today.

Its too long to post excerpts here but the theme presented here of living in Sodom is woven through it. Please take a look at it.

Egregious behavior is common place today; a glance at the head lines on any given day brings 2nd Timothy 3 to mind. The slippery slope that we were warned about decades ago is no longer the issue. The slope has turned to precipice! American is plunging headlong into the abyss of moral decadence, filth, and debauchery.

If this alone were not bad enough, we are asked not only to tolerate it, but applaud it as well!

The story of Noah and the Ark come to mind. It was God himself who closed the door of the Ark. So it shall be once more.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

(1Th 4:16-18 NASB)

#39  Posted by Mary Kidwell  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 6:31 PM

We are to be salt and light in this world for God’s glory and in the hope that those who walk in darkness might desire to know the hope that is within us. Knowing that a judgment day is coming should make us all the more vigilant to let our lights shine and to proclaim His truth.

As Gabe said, our primary purpose is not to change the culture, but I think it is natural to desire to affect the culture for good in the hope that it will be less of a corruptive influence. As a parent, it is easy to be fearful of the culture’s influence but we must remember that Jesus said He was leaving us in the world but praying for our safety from the evil one (John 17:16).

We must be diligent to screen our children’s influences and train them to guard their hearts. I pointed my boys to the example of Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who withstood pressure to forsake God and adopt the culture they found themselves in. I talked constantly to my sons about whatever show or movie they wanted to watch, game they wanted to play, or music they wanted to listen to. Together we would look at reviews to see what they contained. It is also critical to make use of parental control options on TVs, Ipods, and computers.

Above all, we must pray without ceasing for our children. Samuel considered it a sin against the Lord if he should fail to pray for the Israelites (1 Samuel 12:23). This should be our attitude. Paul wrote to the Galatians that he labored in birth again until Christ was formed in them (Gal 4:19). I can so relate to this sentiment as I long to see Christlikeness formed in my children. For the twenty- one years I have been a parent, I have endeavored to not rise in the morning or go to bed at night without first praying for my children as well as in the day as the need or urge arose. God gave me my children and the love I have for them. I know He hears my prayers.

#40  Posted by Jorge Alvarado  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 7:37 PM

Re # 34, Donovan Wrote

"The Gates of Hell will not prevail against us doesn't mean the church withstanding the attack of Hell it means the Gates of Hell will not stand against the attack of the church, this is a huge difference in meaning and it makes a difference when combating sin on a cultural level."

I don't think the statement refers to what the gates of hell will do. Jesus, in saying to Peter that the would build HIS church on what Peter stated, rendered the kingdom of satan defeated.

In Jesus, we are more than conquerors in a spiritual sense. The church is not "impotent". The world going downhill as it has for many years now WAS spoken of in scripture. We have not yet seen the end of it. The battles we fight against "the world" are not fought against flesh and blood. There is no need to hide and wait for Jesus to come. We must occupy until Jesus returns, and that entails speaking His truths to a dying world, so we might save some.

#41  Posted by Paul Tucker  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 10:31 PM

Hi Donovan and Gabriel :

(He He) It is interesting how you would bring up eschatology in a blog such as this. Dispensational theology really has nothing to do with the discussion. What we are talking about is the effect that the hellish doctrine of "free" love has been having on the family. And more to the point, the reason that Post-Mill theology hit the skids is due to the fact that we are not "bringing in the kingdom", the world is getting worse not better. This realization broke in on the thinking of most theologians after world war I,( Loraine Betner is the only modern scholar to present post-mill views that I know of). And I do not see the world getting better because the world is stepping into the church and trying to legislate religious teaching and our views on normal sexual behavior, child rearing, marriage, family, the role of men and women. Even the government of the church is being harassed for suggesting that the women should not act as a pastor or elder. The world system is actively trying to conform the morality,theology, practice of the church, and it appears to have been working. We have homosexuals being ordained in main line denominations, lesbians who are ordained as priest and pastors. This is an abomination to God, and perverts the image of God in man. I could say a lot more but should probably let someone else have a turn. just thinking.

#42  Posted by Paul Tucker  |  Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 10:46 PM

Hi Tommy: Great blog, good statement and I agree with you. We hate the sin and love the sinner- seeking to honor God and doing what is best for the individual who sins. Only God can change a heart... evil influences often plague a person for years. Think of how many have been effected by alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and pornography. Some of the roots run deep, only the Spirit of God can root out these sinful habits. Only the Spirit and the Blood can find a remedy for the lost soul caught in the web of homosexual behavior. (They would laugh at such a statement not knowing their plight- may God open their eyes to their need, and provide a way of escape.)Just a thought

#43  Posted by Tim Boan  |  Friday, August 13, 2010 at 12:04 AM

This really baffles me. I have a cloudy image of path God has set before me. In my life time a lot will change. Reading about the past hero's of our faith like early American history and even before that i find a common centrality that consumes me. Our goal is to glorify God. One way we do that is to spread the Gospel. Watch this; we are to give a reason to the hope that is in us right? well why would anyone ask about a hope that is not interesting at all. I'm talking about a lack of pleasure in God. The faith of our fathers provoke questions like " why on earth did he not denounce the name of Christ?" These questions lead people to salvation. My pleasure in God is greater, no it is complete, there is no greater pleasure. Drugs, alcohol, sex, cars, even the last of them to chip off the old block pornography have no measure to the pleasure i get in the glory of God.

Here is what I am hinting at- our pleasures we are arguing for as a people are too small. Real happiness is in Christ. All i want to do is get a degree in theology because its all that is worth studying, I want to go street preaching, I want to raise my kids to know their sinful state but know God more importantly. We should be proactive in glorifying God. We grumble... I grumble. CNN makes me sick, but my co-workers say 'Let it be' until they see how much more happy a christian is than a homosexual, we all seem to be " post-dated dinosaurs."

Another topic would be how can we get the government back to simply being a state of military, and the church can be the moral store house...

being saved and having God is far better than a simple pleasure to gratify myself for a minute. Families seek the pleasure in knowing you are giving God what He wants when you obey Him and He will bless you with a great feeling of pleasure far more than those of the world.

Grace to you, Glory to God

#44  Posted by Tommy Clayton  |  Friday, August 13, 2010 at 9:46 AM


Even though your eschatological rant is off topic—can’t say I saw a discussion of (accusation against) dispensationalism coming from that post on the family—I’m actually glad you brought it up. Gabe did a superb job of pointing out the theological fallacies in your thinking.

I had to grin when I read your J. Vernon McGee quote about polishing the brass on the sinking ship. Maybe his point was that we should concern ourselves with rescuing the people on the ship rather than the ship itself. The ship of fallen culture is sinking. That’s not pessimism—it’s realism. Broad is the path to destruction. God plucks brands from the fire, but the fire burns on.

In one of your posts, it was interesting that you (perhaps inadvertently) quoted Scripture and attributed such “bleak outlooks” to dispensationalism. You said, dispensationalism paints a pessimistic view of the future (Antichrist, millions of Jews dying, Armageddon, Seas of Blood)

No, actually the Apostle John painted that view of the future. By the way, if you read all the way to the end of his book, we come out OK.

But John’s not the only doomsday prophet. Here’s what the Apostle Paul said in 2 Timothy 3 about the times in which we live:

“ . . . people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.”

He goes on in that chapter to deal a death blow to those who think Christians can sway the tide of society:

“ . . . Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Paul is saying society will not improve, it will implode, and then the end will come. It’s going to get worse.

Maybe I should say one more thing to help you in the future as you read similar articles on the impact society has on Christianity. When writing, it’s important to establish a need in the reader you intend to reach. For example, a non-dispensational writer—just this week on a blog—began his article like so:

“Let’s face it; evangelicalism has seen better days. God is at work in many places and in many ways, but on the whole, the news is not good. Our numbers are dwindling; our theology is unraveling; our zeal for Christ is dissipating. Now more than ever, we need seminaries to give the church leaders who are empowered by the Spirit for radical, sacrificial devotion to Christ and his kingdom. And they’d better do it quickly.”

Now, should we immediately try and discern his eschatological outlook, then level accusations about how dispensational, bleak and hopeless his article sounds. No. I commend that gentleman’s effective method of writing. He immediately established a point of interest with his readers. We can immediately identify with his topic because it presents an accurate view of reality with which all of our lives intersect. That’s not being dispensational—it’s being a good writer. Now, can we get back to the family? :)

#45  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Friday, August 13, 2010 at 6:30 PM

Donavan Dear,

I appreciate some of your posts. You mention about the society. Yes,

Sodomy is quite popular today. Churches that teaches it is from someone outside of the church and sneaks in. You said about church's fault but it not really always the church fault. It's the false teachers whom crept in like Paul mention in the Bible.

Did you know when I was growing up. I look outside of churches, not

inside of them. I meant spiritually.

#46  Posted by Michael Varley  |  Friday, August 13, 2010 at 6:40 PM


What translation are you quoting 2 Timothy 3 with? I hate to see God or his goodness or power referred to as "it". I still love my King James.

2Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness,but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Notice "the power" is not referred to as "it", in the King James.

I have noticed that darkness is referred to as "it" all over the place in the Bible.

Just an interesting side note.

#47  Posted by Michael Varley  |  Friday, August 13, 2010 at 6:41 PM

I apologize, that last post was for Tommy.

#48  Posted by Tommy Clayton  |  Friday, August 13, 2010 at 9:59 PM


You said: I hate to see God or his goodness or power referred to as "it". I still love my King James. 2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. Notice "the power" is not referred to as "it", in the King James.

I’m having a hard time understanding your concern. I used the ESV, which says, “having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.” That translation is faithful to the Greek text, which literally reads:

“Having a form of godliness but the power of it denying.”

“it” is a singular personal pronoun in the third person and genitive case. That’s a fancy way to say the pronoun is possessive in this instance, and refers to “godliness,” which is also a singular, feminine noun in the genitive case.

In other words, “it” doesn’t even refer to “power” in the first place. It goes with “godliness.” I don’t see how a translation could render that phrase more faithfully than the ESV has done.

I think the King James rendering of “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof” is choppy and hard to apprehend for modern readers . . . which is why I laid it aside years ago.

#49  Posted by Michael Varley  |  Saturday, August 14, 2010 at 7:07 AM


I guess I am really sensitive to certain words and how they are applied as I attended a Charismatic Church long enough for the Lord to walk me right out of "it". The Church was everything a body of believers should not be and the term "it" was constantly thrown around in reference to the Holy Spirit, Tongue's, Prophecy, Anointing, etc. Come and get "it" kinda stuff.

No offense meant, just cautious is all.

Sincerely, Michael

#50  Posted by Tommy Clayton  |  Saturday, August 14, 2010 at 7:58 AM

No problem Michael. I thought you were coming from the KJV only camp. Glad that was not the case.

#51  Posted by Greg Tegman  |  Saturday, August 14, 2010 at 10:36 AM

Comment deleted by user.
#52  Posted by Michael Varley  |  Saturday, August 14, 2010 at 4:36 PM


I'm right with you brother. I have experienced some horrible incidents just recently and it's only getting worse, much, much worse. I own three car wash's and just in the last two years it has gone from a tough business to run to a down right scary one. A month and a half ago, I was woken by the police knocking on my door. A Dentist had been murdered at one of my car washes in the process of being robbed. The next day I found out that a similar situation had occurred the week before at my same business only the victim escaped with his life and the very next week another customer was mugged at another location. I also found out recently that the reason why things had been getting so bad at a couple of my car washes was because 6 apartment complex's just down the road from my business's had starting housing Section 8 tenants because the government pays more than what they were able to rent the apartments for to the general public. I'm cussed at on a regular basis for trying to protect my business's and the law abiding customers that use my facilities. I constantly have to ask people to turn down or off their foul music, pull up their pants, or leave my business because they are waiting for their drug dealers to arrive. I now spend 2 hours every morning reviewing video footage just to be able to let the police know what is going on at my business's. I could go on and on and on but what good would it do. It is getting harder and harder to not let the sin around me effect my attitude towards these people who are destroying themselves and our country. In one way I am exposed to a lifestyle that very few people understand even exists, and on the other hand, the Lord has strengthened my faith more than he ever would have if I didn't have to deal with these daily battles. I know God is getting ready to do something soon, I don't see how it can get any worse than it is now.

#53  Posted by Greg Tegman  |  Saturday, August 14, 2010 at 9:20 PM

To Michael, I just deleted the post you commented on. I didn't like the way I wrote it. Thank you though.Good point. We can thank the liberal agenda's influence on the FCC for allowing the abundance of hate based entertainment like gangster rap with the fear based attitude at it's core. I was assaulted by three High School aged boys in front of my family and neighbors twelve years ago. When the Snohomish County Sheriff arrived, they approached the kids first. They then approached me and offered no recourse since they were under 18. They said to me that if I had fought back,they would have had to take me to jail. These kids saw that and they laughed. They continued to harrass me and threaten me in the days that followed. The cops did nothing. I believe the liberals have gained so much ground in politics that it seems impossible to turn America around. God only knows. Like the long list Connie Dennis wrote above, We must do all we can with prayer to practice our faith with our mouth as would be proper according to scripture. I have been guilty of knowing the truth and not sharing it. What happened to my boldness?. Conservative people as well as Christians are now considered racist,homophobic idiots for believing in decency and moral standards even when we don't even talk about it. If the parents in America do not take the time to consider what temptations are in the home when they are gone, then we are part of the problem. Then we have the neighbors house after school. Mom and dad both working is a bad deal. What a mess.

#54  Posted by Greg Tegman  |  Saturday, August 14, 2010 at 9:28 PM

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#55  Posted by Greg Tegman  |  Tuesday, August 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM

I have been doing alot of research in scripture. Someone told me that The fearful expectation of judgement mentioned in Hebrews 10 was designed to keep people away from seeking God. Something I have had for twenty years. It is that fear that kept me from reading scripture. I think I may have heard pastor macarthur say that. I coulb wrong. I fell into much debauchery and I now want out.

#56  Posted by Ernest Gregoire  |  Tuesday, August 17, 2010 at 1:11 PM

Dear Greg, You are in the right place here!

Whom ever told you that did you a great disservice!

'Fearing' God has more than one definition.

Fear here means; respect, as one has for his own father. If a father is a good one he will instill a healthy fear in his children for doing wrong. The child knows that their father loves them but they ‘fear’ the results of their doing wrong and getting caught!

God revealed Himself to us in a Father-Child relationship. He did this so that we would understand what he meant and where we stood in relationship with him. We respect, reverence God, and obey him out of fear of the results of doing what is wrong.

Another aspect of ‘Godly fear’ is that compared to God, we are pond scum when it comes to being holy. The bible tells many stories about people quaking in ‘fear’ when in the presence of a Holy God! Until I realized just how putrid my best efforts were for getting holy and staying that way, I didn’t understand the vast difference between God and me.

The good news is that Jesus cleans us up and when Father God looks at us, he has to look through the blood of his son to view us. When he does that he sees the righteousness of Christ, and not our own filthiness.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

(Isa 64:6 NASB)

The word ‘Filthy Garment’ here is mild compared to other translations. I used the NASB to tone it down, but it is a very filthy, disgusting to look at, rag!

Do not despair, I was a card carrying pagan before I got saved. I don’t do that stuff anymore. I find that what I used to do for fun, I now find disgusting, dirty and vile. Looking back on my previous life, (the pagan portion) I see it as a bad dream and I have a hard time looking back and thinking, “I really did that stuff!”

Satan, and some times even church members like to throw our past sins in our face. Don’t be discouraged, the Apostle Paul who wrote most of the New Testament, was a mass murderer!

There is peace for everyone at the foot of the cross!

#57  Posted by Jorge Alvarado  |  Tuesday, August 17, 2010 at 1:14 PM

Hi, Greg, in # 55 you wrote:

"Someone told me that The fearful expectation of judgement mentioned in Hebrews 10 was designed to keep people away from seeking God."

I'm not positive what you mean. Does it have something to do with:

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. (??)

If it is, I can tell you that you were misled.

The "sinning deliberately" has to do with matters of the heart, not necessarily with what you do or don't do.

The fact that you still "want out" speaks volumes. As long as you keep Jesus as the primary focus of your life, you can believe the following:

"Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,

Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor ANYTHING ELSE in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Re "I may have heard pastor macarthur say that."

You may have taken that out of context.

Keep reading scripture. Only then will you understand God more and know for sure what He has in store for you. Hope this helps.

#58  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Tuesday, August 17, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Hi Greg,

Were you talking about fear?

One cool thing in the Bible that Jesus told Peter to walk to him on

the water. Only thing Peter look back and started to fear. He started

to sink and Jesus got a hold of him. Jesus brought him back to the boat where the disciples were. Jesus ask him why did he had lack of faith. Peter learned to trust Jesus and not to be afraid.

I do agree it's a tough world out there. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, we need to be careful and pray asking God to whom God wants us

to tell about Jesus. Read Psalms 1.

Keep reading His Word and God will teach you something new. That's

is awesome!! Smiles.

#59  Posted by Dan Wilson  |  Tuesday, August 17, 2010 at 5:37 PM

When I read about fear.

I look at it like

Fear- some is good, like Fearing God means humble before Him cause He is holy and good.

Some is bad which it's sin, like afraid of world and afraid of everything.

God reminds us not to be afraid of people at times, why cause no one

can hurt our soul. In the bible says that God said do not fear those

who can kill the body ,but they can't kill the soul. God also said

Fear God who can both destroy body and soul. He means the unbeliever

and those who hates Him. He is showing that how powerful and awesome

He is. Does it help? I can pray for you.

God bless.